Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) in Raleigh

Been saying this for a bit now, but the Northern Corridor(s) should try to avoid Capital as much as possible. I have zero expection that NCDOT is gonna want to give up general purpose lanes on US-1, and the fact that the New Bern route is in mixed traffic east of I-440 is proof of that. I know they’ve given us pretty renderings of a Capital Blvd expressway with center-running bus lanes, but… let’s be real. That’s not happening, at least not any time soon. Plus, Capital’s ROW is so massive that crossing it on foot is a nightmare.

Alternatively, a lot of Atlantic is ripe for redevelopment (as we’ve seen with RIW). The ROW isn’t as wide, it’s not as heavily used, and I think NCDOT would be a little more comfortable with giving up some control on it. Two lanes for cars and two lanes for buses… I think you can build a really comfortable walking environment around that.

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No. The city looked at a West St. alignment back in 2016, back when they didn’t put the BRT in context of a North Hills or Triangle Town Center extension, and didn’t came to a firm conclusion at the time. But since then, the city did a fatal flaw analysis, and the result of that no longer includes a West St. option. We don’t know what’s in the fatal flaw analysis, yet, since the whole MIS is still in progress now - but I think it’s safe to say that widening West St. to make way for BRT no longer becomes worth it, given what we know and want today.

The same thing seems to be true for a route that directly goes through Glenwood. One of the few constants across all the route options for both the North Hills and Triangle Town Center branches is where the study assumes the route will go downtown:

Clearly, this is not a complete loop - so maybe, the idea is that a preferred downtown alignment will involve one or more of what you see there. But none of these include a direct line to Glenwood.

Personally, I think this makes sense. Glenwood South businesses have already been hostile to replacing curbside parking spaces with bikeways - and that’s before you factor in how much more difficult it would be to build a major transit line if you also have to fight drunk partiers for space - on street level! - every weekend.

The one thing that still makes me hopeful that this is in the books is how NCDOT has explicit plans to make Capital Blvd. into a freeway precisely beyond the limits of this study and the study behind the pretty pictures you’re talking about. Even the RTA, who you’d expect to lobby for extending such a freeway all the way down to Wade Avenue if that were the case, also calls for a BRT-friendly Capital Blvd. with protected pedestrian paths etc. up to Triangle Town Center. The relatively-consistent study scopes make me think it’s not just the copium talking, but what do I know lol

The real question for Atlantic Av. is whether you’d get service that’s fast enough and serves enough people - especially since the city wants people to rezone lots around Capital Blvd. for denser, mixed-use developments. That’s honestly the part that I’m more skeptical of, especially since the Capital Blvd. North study pretty much seems to push Atlantic back to being a local neighborhood relief route for future congestion.

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Capital, as proposed, would definitely be the faster option. I think it becomes a question of human behavior more than anything. Let’s theoretically say that we are able to maximize TOD potential on either corridor. Are potential riders more likely to use a route that is a bit slower, but more comfortable to walk to? Or are they going to prefer a route that is quicker, but getting to the stations is a less pleasant experience?

I’m really not sure what the answer is, because it’s ultimately going to vary from person to person. I think, in an ideal world, we go for US-1 and cap the freeway at some of the stations to make for a more pleasant walking experience, but even then, pedestrians are still interacting with the levels of car traffic that are typically generated around freeway exits (and that’s not to mention the cost of capping).

As I’m thinking about it, I think I’m mostly partial to an Atlantic alignment because I see BRT in Raleigh as an opportunity for placemaking and neighborhood building, and I think that works better along a corridor with a smaller footprint. Capital essentially functions as an urban canyon in its current state, and I don’t see that changing once it’s converted to a grade-separated freeway. So, even if we do manage to redevelop parcels along Capital, they still won’t really be connected to each other. Granted, that’s oftentimes how TOD works, but at least with Atlantic, you could redevelop all four corners of an intersection (like New Hope Church or Six Forks) and have it function as a single neighborhood, whereas with Capital, development east of the freeway is going to feel almost completely separate from development west of the freeway, save for the occasional bridge that will often double as a highway interchange.

Let’s throw in a couple hastily-edited images for funsies (note that I didn’t reference the actual NCDOT plans for this, so I have no clue where the on/off ramps are going to be or how much space they’re going to take up):

Plus, Atlantic is probably the quicker build (since we wouldn’t be waiting on an expressway conversion, which has already been pushed back at least a couple times), and, while it’ll likely be more expensive for the City, I expect it will use fewer taxpayer dollars overall. And who knows? Maybe we get super lucky and NCDOT opts to include a busway anyway, and boom, we have a local route via Atlantic and an express route via Capital (very pie-in-the-sky, but isn’t that what we do here anyway?).

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“Are potential riders more likely to use a route that is a bit slower, but more comfortable to walk to?” i lived my first 16 years in raleigh riding transit, some cabs and rides from neighbors…as did my folks who couldn’t drive. with them and me it was always how short of a walk do i have to do to get on the bus.

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This looks like it shows an extension of Six Forks from its current terminus East to Hodges as “planned street”. I knew that that had been considered at some point since the City has the right of way for most of it, but assumed it died in environmental approvals. Anyone know if it’s still on the books/moving forward?

I think its lack of advancement has less to do with environmental approval, and far more to do with cost/funding/prioritization.

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According to one of the transit planners for the city, the new bid approach is going to involve 3 parts or one bid per section… one section being downtown and another being WakeMed and so forth. The idea is that it would make it easier for 3 small and local firms to take the bait.

I can’t follow these long-winded posts…

When in the hell is the New Bern BRT going to actually start?

This is beyond ridiculous…taxpayers should be incensed…not just in Raleigh but nationally given Federal money is being used for this project.

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Most of our posts here in the BRT thread are super long because the devil’s in the details. I’m sorry you and others hate how long and text-heavy they are, but it’s because there’s enough of us here that like to sweat the details so that everyone else doesn’t have to :slight_smile:

Anyways, putting all the tea leaf-reading for the Capital Blvd. corridor on ice for a second:

My post gave that answer, lol:

…but this assumes that someone will actually place a bid at a reasonable cost.

You can hate on transit and the public sector all you want - but in this case, it’s local construction companies that aren’t stepping up.

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Did anyone ever confirm whether the bid is precluding out of state contractors? Was that just conjecture?

Either way can’t wait for this to take a full 6 months to go out for bud and the. 6 more to come back empty handed

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Yup, that was just some guessing and misunderstanding in our community; we cleared up the confusion a li’l while back. This is exactly why we all have to be careful about guessing without citing sources.

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So we have now potentially 5 routes (NSEW+Capital) x 3 sections, so 15 sections with 15 contractors with about a year to get contractors on board and another 2 years for completion, so in 45 years when I’m 87, I will be able to enjoy slightly faster buses to many parts of Raleigh. Assuming nothing gets delayed.

:tired_face:

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They may not need to have the same strategy for the other lines. This is just the strategy that they’re taking for New Bern Ave.

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if true…recent agencies have shown odd federal spending priorities??

If I’m correct at what you’re getting at I will note that I confirmed via the government grant database that at least all the money for the New Bern leg is already disbursed to the city.

Now, of course, the latest news indicates federal clawbacks are on the table, but I doubt Raleigh is enough of a political target to warrant special treatment.

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As long as millions aren’t earmarked for a Sesame Street show in Iraq, we shouldn’t have any problems.

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Going back to an old discussion about BRT on Blue Ridge Road and in the Fairgrounds area.

Blue Ridge south of Hillsborough is not a busy street at all. It carries a paltry 11k vehicles per day, and it’s easy to see why. It closely parallels the beltline to the east, and Hillsborough and Western intersect directly just 3/4 mile west. The only thing approaching congested was the intersection at Beryl/Hillsborough and that was only because the signal cycles were so long due to the railroad crossing and sheer number of approaches.

Well, the underpass fixes all that - so now it can handle a road diet down to two lanes. And this is the key to a dedicated BRT route through the area.

I actually think this is a far more important BRT route than the one to Cary, because it hits the arena area and then connects to I-40 (and from there to RTP, RDU, Durham, Chapel Hill, etc.) I would actually be fine if the Western Blvd BRT were mostly mixed-traffic west of Blue Ridge. It’s very seldom congested out there anyway. The fairgrounds/stadium/arena area, and then from Blue Ridge toward downtown, are the places where the Western BRT really needs the dedicated lanes due to traffic.

With all those bus routes overlaid onto this corridor, there would truly be enough bus service to justify the dedicated lanes and provide fantastic frequency. A bus every two or three minutes would be conceivable.

Is it too late to pivot towards this for planning the Western Corridor BRT?

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Isn’t this the corridor that’s going to be served by the 100X? The 100 kinda goes through there right now.Once that goes frequent, I could see some additional infrastructure in order to make it be a nicer walk.

I go to Cary a lot more than the stadiums. I think it’s a lot more of an all day destination. Downtown Cary Park is fantastic and I have a lot of friends who live that direction. I could see running the 100x in BRT lanes we build for the Western BRT but that gets messy for the street grid out that direction.

I could also see a gameday bus-only lane for the 100x to make it through that corridor so that it doesn’t get held up in traffic.

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