Bus Rapid Transit in Raleigh


#61

So the problem with Austrian economics (or libertarians), and one of the main reasons it is as every bit a fringe branch of economics as Marxism is, is that they property rights as perfect and thus market failures as improbable. As such, we don’t need taxes to correct market failures born out of externalities. Modern neo-classical economics wholly rejects this line of thinking and recognize that markets often don’t lead to the societally optimal outcome. In these case, we can often use corrective taxes to get us back to the optimal allocation. There are many externalities associated with driving once roads get congested (lost productivity, increased accident rates,…) so taxing driving during congested periods is a way to get back to a more optimal number of drivers. Fuel taxes and miles driven taxes are also ways to address some of the externalities associated with driving, but first one must believe in externalities and this is where full-blown free marketers have trouble.


#62

Excuse the typos of that last post. I’m writing, appropriately enough, while on a bus.


#63

Ideally, yes. But then several cities in the US like New York (MTA’s Select Bus Service) or Boston (the Silver Line) call themselves BRTs but aren’t at all in practice because they skimped away on all the important features.

I think it’s one of those things where it SHOULD be redundant to say “dedicated infrastructure for BRT”, but it sadly isn’t in real life…


#64

I reluctantly commute (almost) daily to Cary in my car. Seeing the busses stuck in the same exact traffic that I am in isn’t a good look, TBH. It seems that a few people on this forum have good experiences taking the bus and I am curious about your commutes. Are you commuting to a different city in the Triangle or commuting within Raleigh? Is it faster, or are there other reasons you choose to take the bus? Is there a bus stop near your office?

The closest stop to my office is about 2 miles away, which would add a 30 minute walk for me. A bike isn’t going to help, as I am terrified of riding it on busy roads. Considering my drive to the Raleigh Station (15 minutes), plus the bus ride itself (claims to be 20 minutes, but not sure I believe that), plus a 30 minute walk, that’s actually longer than my drive. Plus, in the heat, I would likely need to shower/change clothes once I arrive, further delaying my start time.

As much as I’d love to take the bus, I feel like the logistics never quite work for me. I am curious as to how other manage it.


#65

I LOVE Union Station… but HATE the fact they are turning the building north of it into a bus station! That building is one of the few left in Raleigh with such potential to be so many things! It could be an entire retail arena… vs. having spotted retail throughout Raleigh.

They are going to ruin the area by bringing that in. I can’t believe we aren’t utilizing that wonderful space in other ways. Who comes up with these ideas?!


#66

I ride the bus to work everyday. I work two blocks from the downtown raleigh station and the bus stop is about 250 feet from my house. It’s about 5 minutes slower for me to take the bus. I do it to save money on parking and promote public transit. I also bought my house specifically because it was near a bus stop.


#67

At the time that we bought our house, the commute was pretty short for my husband and I, but companies move, jobs aren’t forever. :wink:


#68

GoTriangle will develop that building into a multi-use bus terminal.


#69

Exactly… something we don’t need there. That is such a prime location! And in one of the only remaining buildings left in Raleigh that is unique and has character.


#70

Wait really? We don’t need transit terminals downtown? We don’t need multi-use use buildings in the warehouse district? You know the Dillion, right across the street, is a multi-use tower as well, right? And that the word “multi-use” implies that it’ll be more than just a bus terminal, right? And why don’t we need it there? It’s directly adjacent to Raleigh Union Station, and will serve as a transfer point between bus, Amtrak, and future communter rail. It’s the exact thing that’s needed there.


#71

They are likely to retain the facade of that building, and they are likely to build a multi-story, mixed-use (office? residential? hotel?) building on top of it. Basically, something like The Dillon but with a bus station in place of the bottom level or two of the parking deck.

  1. Retain the character by preserving the facade,
  2. Get active retail along West Street,
  3. Add density with office,
  4. Add housing with a (possible) residential component,
  5. And get a new transit terminal, right next to Union Station.

This sounds like a win-win-win-win-win to me.


#72

Where in Cary is your place of work?


#73

Yes we do need multi use buildings Klew. MY opinion is there are much better options than including buses at this one! That is such a prime spot for so many things that don’t include a second bus station. The Dillion right across the street… thanks for pointing that out… as if none of us knew that… is the perfect example of how things should be done in that area.


#74

And that will be done there, with the addition of buses.


#75

It’s off of Weston Pkwy - There’s a stop at he corner of Harrison and Weston - my office is off of Norwell, about 2 miles down the road.


#76

Just curious… do you travel around the current bus station during the morning commute? Often causes congestion. Imagine a mixed use space in that building… that would include a parking deck… which means 100s of cars going in and out + the 100s of cars from the Dillon deck + the 100s of cars from the citrix deck + the cars going in and out of union station + all the day to day traffic and cars that are driving by and / or parking on the street… then throw in a bunch of large buses going in and out at all times… I just don’t see this as a location that should house a bus station. I see it as more of a mixed use property similar to the Dillon with more focus on first floor retail. This would expand the already retail foot print currently going in. Disagree with me… that’s fine… It’s my opinion.


#77

Imagine people taking the bus and train instead of driving.


#78

Sure, The Dillon is mixed-use but remember that it basically looks like this.

  • floor 1 retail and parking
  • floor 2-8 parking
  • floor 9+ offices

The RUSbus could actually be more impactful with the same height cause it may include a lot less parking. The ground floor should have retail facing the street while the interior is the bus terminal. I see no wasted Oppurtunity here.


#79

I gotcha! GoCary’s Route 3 stops at Weston and Norwell, but only outbound from. Cary Depot. A route along Weston to Park West Village and Cary Depot is coming sometime in 2019!


#80

I see it as more of a mixed use property similar to the Dillon with more focus on first floor retail.

It looks like this is exactly what’s being proposed for the bus terminal idea, though?

From the slides in the NC General Assembly as posted by @Andrew, and as described by @orulz, it looks like mixed-use commercial spaces are already being accounted for, including ground-floor retail.

Looking at this and the other images on that slide deck, it really looks like RUS Phase 2 is more like the Dillon with a bus bay in the back. It even also accounts for spaces for parking decks and BRT stations nearby, but at the very least, it will keep the functional features of what used to be there. (There’s an entire thread to talk about this)

If this means it’ll be easier to take buses/BRT from NC State or Cary to DTR and possibly get coffee while meeting up with people without walking out of the building… I don’t see anything wrong with that, either?