I personally think that 20 stories would be awesome! Also I think with that this is in reality a negotiation strategy and you start at the most and then settle or compromise and in this case we’ll end up with 18…
JK did it with the NIMBYs for his Dillon project and there will be those who think that this is no place for 20 stories…back around to compromise. I believe that you can have (and should have) both height and density. One should not be exclusive of the other.
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I think the way it is designed, with the 20 story portion next to the tracks and the 7 stories up front, it is going to be hard to argue that. That 20 stories is closer to the Dillon and Bus Station project than it is to Historic Boylan.
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anything over 20 stories would look completely out of place here. You should be happy it’s 20 because i can guarantee you there’ll be more people opposed to that being too tall than too short, given it’s proximity to Boylan Heights.
As someone who lives really close to this project, but also someone who wants to see downtown grow and develop to its full potential, I’ll be spending a lot of time hanging out near some 7-story and 20-story buildings in the next few weeks to get a real feel for the scale.
At the moment, it’s hard to stand outside my neighbor’s little shotgun house and imagine a 7-story building directly across the street. That doesn’t mean he or I are completely opposed to one being there, but it’s just hard to imagine the scale because everything is currently 3 stories or less.
This area is already in a valley, and it would pretty much suck to feel like we’re living at the bottom of the Grand Canyon. That said, I think there are probably ways to get the density without making it feel that way, so I’m keeping an open mind.
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The 20-story area is actually only ~275–300 feet from the closest house, while it is 750 ft from Union Station (building, not platform) and 825 ft from the Dillon.
True, those houses aren’t technically part of Historic Boylan Heights, but they are still rather small, older homes.
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This afternoon’s TBJ is reporting that John Kane has met with the city on a 20 story tower to be in downtown !
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Thanks for sharing the news Dwight. Looks to be the Clancy & They’s site at S. West St.
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He’s trying to get the city to make that parcel a PUD to give him more flexibility. The 20 story part of the parcel is closest to the tracks with the majority of the property remaining at 7 stories.
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This area is already zoned for seven stories (IX-7-UL) so not much could be done to stop a seven story development. The rezoning is needed for the 20 story building where West meets the tracks.
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Yep, the neighborhood realizes that, and we’re trying to fully understand the implications of the PD rezoning request beyond just the 20-story part of it. It was presented as an opportunity for the community to be involved in the process and result in a master plan that would be very specific about what will be built.
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Twenty floors is usually around 250-325 feet, and I always say Raleigh has a “missing middle” of high rises between the 10-15 floor type and the three big ones (PNC, BB&T, Wells Fargo). It’ll help densify downtown while not overwhelming it in size and height. It’ll also allow for a transition between our relatively low-scale residential neighborhoods and the larger towers on Fayetteville.
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The site is the old Clancy & Theys lot . Mr. Kane has .15 acre that has the 20 story zoning ! Most likely the Boylan Heights residents will fight Mr. Kane’s project !
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Hi @nipper.dwight. That lot size you stated of 0.15 acre didn’t seem right so I checked iMaps and it’s actually 1.15 acres. Now, this extra acre doesn’t mean locals won’t object to the project! Personally I hope this proposal comes to fruition. There is still a huge lot to the West and Dupont Circle separating the Clancy & They’s parcel from Boylan Heights.
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Hey Stew , I may be wrong about this ! From what I understand , the one acre is zoned for 7 stories !
Kane is requesting rezoning for the entire property (three parcels in total) from the current IX-7-UL (industrial 7 stories) to PD (Planned Development).
The rezoning request includes 7 stories for part of the property and up to 20 stories for the northeast quadrant, which is not currently a delineated parcel but rather covers multiple parcels. You can see a visual representation of the proposed rezoning in my post above with the map.
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At the first neighborhood meeting with the developer, I didn’t get the impression that neighbors are opposed to the project. At this point, there are still a lot of details that haven’t been defined. Neighbors raised specific concerns about various potential impacts to the neighborhood, and Kane provided a survey for neighbors to provide feedback.
The general consensus from my neighbors at this very early stage is that we’re cautiously optimistic. Obviously, there is an opportunity for this property to become something really special that benefits downtown as well as the closest neighbors.
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Wow. This is YUUGE. Much bigger than the PD lets on.
Parcel 1 (Eastern part): up to 20 stories, 350,000 sf office, 500 apartments, 50,000 sf retail.
Parcel 2 (Southwest part): up to 7 stories, 100,000 sf office, 500 apartments, 50,000 sf retail.
Parcel 3 (Northwest part): up to 7 stories, 200,000 sf office, 500 apartments, 50,000 sf retail.
It seems this is what he is asking for entitlements to build in order to have flexibility, but doesn’t expect to max those entitlements out. I don’t think he could even fit that entire program on that site with the heights he proposes, without perhaps putting all parking underground.
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Is there potential for another grocery store here? Three separate retail spaces of 50k each would work. Publix under Peace will be 46k square feet.