# Raleigh-area Mall / Life-Style Center / RTP Redevelopments **URL:** \ **Category:** The Pub\ **Created:** [June 25, 2019, 12:41pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-area-mall-life-style-center-rtp-redevelopments/1184 "2019-06-25T12:41:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 298
**Author:** ![John](https://community.dtraleigh.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@John](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/John)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 6:49pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-area-mall-life-style-center-rtp-redevelopments/1184/5999 "2025-05-23T18:49:00Z")
Have they been drinking with the Livable Raleigh folks? ---
**Author:** ![OakCityDylan](https://community.dtraleigh.com/user_avatar/community.dtraleigh.com/oakcitydylan/32/169_2.png) [@OakCityDylan](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/OakCityDylan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 7:53pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-area-mall-life-style-center-rtp-redevelopments/1184/6000 "2025-05-23T19:53:22Z")
When you go that far, it’s easy to just discard the comment/opinion. How do you take any of that seriously? ---
**Author:** ![sthomper](https://community.dtraleigh.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/54ee81/32.png) [@sthomper](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/sthomper)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 11:32pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-area-mall-life-style-center-rtp-redevelopments/1184/6001 "2025-05-23T23:32:03Z")
i dont know Triangle Towns fate…but they practically have a sidewalk with some greenery that circumnavigates the entire place…maybe ripe for mixed-use development. ---
**Author:** ![svp](https://community.dtraleigh.com/user_avatar/community.dtraleigh.com/svp/32/18832_2.png) [@svp](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/svp)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 9:14pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-area-mall-life-style-center-rtp-redevelopments/1184/6002 "2025-05-24T21:14:52Z")
Shopping centers must continue to evolve," Cary Mayor Harold Weinbrecht said during the meeting. If you don’t believe me, look at the one with Big Lots, look at [South Hills](https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2025/04/17/cary-christian-school-for-sale-south-hills-mall.html), look at [Cary Towne Mall](https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2021/01/03/epic-games-buys-cary-towne-center-for-headquarters.html). They all died. [MacGregor [Village]](https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2024/06/07/macgregor-village-cary-shopping-retail-center-sold.html)was this close and they almost died, they evolved at the last minute. As you heard from one business owner, they are struggling to survive. They cannot exist in a shopping area that doesn’t evolve" Hines plans up to 750 multifamily units and 30,000 sq ft commercial space. The buildings would be up to seven stories, a height that council members said is consistent with the nearby WakeMed hospital. [https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2025/05/23/waverly-place-cary-rezoning-development-hines.html](https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2025/05/23/waverly-place-cary-rezoning-development-hines.html) ---
**Author:** ![GucciLittlePig](https://community.dtraleigh.com/user_avatar/community.dtraleigh.com/guccilittlepig/32/25831_2.png) [@GucciLittlePig](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/GucciLittlePig)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2025, 12:21am UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-area-mall-life-style-center-rtp-redevelopments/1184/6003 "2025-05-25T00:21:36Z")
Harold is a good mayor. I read his blog sometimes. Big fan. ---
**Author:** ![BoringRaleigh](https://community.dtraleigh.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@BoringRaleigh](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/BoringRaleigh)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2025, 4:41am UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-area-mall-life-style-center-rtp-redevelopments/1184/6004 "2025-05-25T04:41:54Z")
Like gerrymandering? Cary should be Raleigh… Just a rich demographics hideout from the city. Reminds me of South Africa. ---
**Author:** ![ctillnc](https://community.dtraleigh.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@ctillnc](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/ctillnc)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2025, 5:26pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-area-mall-life-style-center-rtp-redevelopments/1184/6005 "2025-05-25T17:26:52Z")
Hang on. Cary is 57% white and the per capita income is $65K. Raleigh is 51% white and the per capita income is $52K. Sure, there are differences – the largest minority group in Cary is Asians, not African-Americans – but otherwise Cary’s demographics are similar to Raleigh’s demographics north of 440. Not everyone in Cary is a millionaire. No sense complaining about the multitude of municipalities in Wake County. Consolidation was never in the cards and certainly isn’t now. About half the county has always resided outside the Raleigh city limits. Some precincts in north Raleigh might say that actually, they’d prefer to be part of Cary and not have to support DTR. ---
**Author:** ![rhinson](https://community.dtraleigh.com/user_avatar/community.dtraleigh.com/rhinson/32/19061_2.png) [@rhinson](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/rhinson)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2025, 7:44pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-area-mall-life-style-center-rtp-redevelopments/1184/6006 "2025-05-25T19:44:20Z")
I’m a Raleigh native. Grew up in 6 residences within 4 miles of the RIW. Moved to north Raleigh in the early 80’s so I could afford a small house with room for my dogs, a garden and a home studio (I’m a potter). DTR is deep in my roots, and I love it. I would sooner pi$$ on the village of Cary as to give up my Raleigh status. Just my thoughts as a Yimby outside the beltline. ---
**Author:** ![GucciLittlePig](https://community.dtraleigh.com/user_avatar/community.dtraleigh.com/guccilittlepig/32/25831_2.png) [@GucciLittlePig](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/GucciLittlePig)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2025, 8:28pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-area-mall-life-style-center-rtp-redevelopments/1184/6007 "2025-05-25T20:28:41Z")
> [@rhinson](#): > > I’m a potter A hairy potter? 👀 … ---
**Author:** ![ctillnc](https://community.dtraleigh.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@ctillnc](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/ctillnc)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2025, 8:30pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-area-mall-life-style-center-rtp-redevelopments/1184/6008 "2025-05-25T20:30:47Z")
I understand that. On the other hand, there is only one native North Carolinian on my entire block in north Raleigh, and she’s from down east. Much of north Raleigh is like this. I’m not suggesting seriously that north Raleigh go to the NC General Assembly and get itself transferred out of Raleigh into Cary (or established as a separate municipality). Even if a majority of citizens wanted to see it happen – and that would be an interesting referendum – the mechanics of allocating Raleigh’s $1.5B+ debt would be horrendous. I simply wanted to point out that if someone sees Cary as demographically objectionable, the same could be said for north Raleigh OTB. ---
**Author:** ![BoringRaleigh](https://community.dtraleigh.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@BoringRaleigh](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/BoringRaleigh)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2025, 10:05pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-area-mall-life-style-center-rtp-redevelopments/1184/6009 "2025-05-25T22:05:45Z")
No. North Raleigh citizens pay taxes. Cary doesn’t have to acknowledge the working class in the area. The median household income in Cary is $113,782. ---
**Author:** ![ctillnc](https://community.dtraleigh.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@ctillnc](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/ctillnc)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2025, 10:39pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-area-mall-life-style-center-rtp-redevelopments/1184/6010 "2025-05-25T22:39:33Z")
Everybody pays taxes. Social services are primarily the responsiblity of Wake County, not the municipalities. Cary’s municipal tax rate is only slightly lower than Raleigh’s. The county property tax rate is the same. Cary has a higher percentage of properties paying tax than Raleigh because Cary doesn’t have as many tax-exempt properties – government-owned, educational institutions, etc. ---
**Author:** ![BoringRaleigh](https://community.dtraleigh.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@BoringRaleigh](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/BoringRaleigh)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2025, 10:53pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-area-mall-life-style-center-rtp-redevelopments/1184/6011 "2025-05-25T22:53:33Z")
Weird. There is more to taxes than just social services. Why would you assume that? ---
**Author:** ![dtraleigh](https://community.dtraleigh.com/user_avatar/community.dtraleigh.com/dtraleigh/32/32735_2.png) [@dtraleigh](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/dtraleigh)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2025, 11:01pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-area-mall-life-style-center-rtp-redevelopments/1184/6012 "2025-05-25T23:01:37Z")
If feel we’re off topic. Let’s focus, people. ---
**Author:** ![GucciLittlePig](https://community.dtraleigh.com/user_avatar/community.dtraleigh.com/guccilittlepig/32/25831_2.png) [@GucciLittlePig](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/GucciLittlePig)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2025, 3:39am UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-area-mall-life-style-center-rtp-redevelopments/1184/6013 "2025-05-26T03:39:09Z")
Is this still about a life style center? ---
**Author:** ![BoyHowdy](https://community.dtraleigh.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/43a26b/32.png) [@BoyHowdy](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/BoyHowdy)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2025, 8:29pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-area-mall-life-style-center-rtp-redevelopments/1184/6014 "2025-05-28T20:29:09Z")
> [@BoringRaleigh](#): > > No. North Raleigh citizens pay taxes. Cary doesn’t have to acknowledge the working class in the area. The median household income in Cary is $113,782. CARY always got their town name as the abbreviation for Containment Area for Relocated Yankees, but a new one I heard was **Can’t Annex Raleigh Yet** 😀 They’d select Oakwood, Mordecai, Boylan Heights, and maybe Cameron Village, leave the rest LOL ---
**Author:** ![John](https://community.dtraleigh.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@John](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/John)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2025, 9:47pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-area-mall-life-style-center-rtp-redevelopments/1184/6015 "2025-05-28T21:47:47Z")
Based on Cary’s recent development decisions, I think they’d choose more densely populated areas of Raleigh to add to their tax base. ---
**Author:** ![orulz](https://community.dtraleigh.com/user_avatar/community.dtraleigh.com/orulz/32/3808_2.png) [@orulz](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/orulz)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 2:38am UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-area-mall-life-style-center-rtp-redevelopments/1184/6016 "2025-05-29T02:38:03Z")
A few years back Cary had a presentation that I feel like woke the council up to the fact that bedroom communities (high ratio of low-density residential to commercial/industrial) that are landlocked (can’t sprawl any more) are doomed to either have very high property taxes, or have to deal with declining services and infrastructure. We talked about it a bit here. > [@Raleigh and the Suburbs](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-and-the-suburbs/691/122): > > The firm who does these studies, Urban3, did a good [presentation](https://youtu.be/yicYz2PO1IQ?t=2500) of Cary 2 years ago. Great explanation and gives some reason to why we see Downtown Cary expanding a lot today. They also start off with a zoomed-out graphic of Wake County. Interesting to see North Hills compared to DTR. Anyway that preso really seemed to wake the town council up to the need for denser development, and ever since then, I have seldom seen them turn one down. ---
**Author:** ![dylan](https://community.dtraleigh.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/e95f7d/32.png) [@dylan](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/dylan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 11:54pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-area-mall-life-style-center-rtp-redevelopments/1184/6017 "2025-05-29T23:54:26Z")
Funny that you mentioned this presentation. It was just referenced in the [Reflecting Raleigh presentation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRzSln1NFv0) today…by the same guy. ---
**Author:** ![keita](https://community.dtraleigh.com/user_avatar/community.dtraleigh.com/keita/32/354_2.png) [@keita](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/keita)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2025, 4:11pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-area-mall-life-style-center-rtp-redevelopments/1184/6018 "2025-06-04T16:11:29Z")
More updates about Hoffman’s proposal for bringing a RUSbus-like terminal closer to RTP: GoTriangle’s planning committee will meet today to look over [the proposed contract and cost estimates](https://gotriangle.community.highbond.com/document/27ee57c0-af3e-42a8-9214-bbc56dcdece7/) for the first 30% of work to be done. This includes a list of all design subcontractors and what they’re expected to do. And based on the detailed lists of documents that GoTriangle is proposing to require, I think we’re stuck with the general layout in [the proposal we saw several weeks ago](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-area-mall-life-style-center-rtp-redevelopments/1184/5933), where the bus bay seems to be in an awkward place relative to future rail and BRT platforms. This is based on the text below (relevant parts bolded and italicized): > [@from Hoffman's memo](#): > > Hoffman & Associates plans to engage the following designers and consultants in completing the Schematic Design Phase: […] > > LS3P will provide schematic design Architectural services […] _ **in accordance with their proposal dated May 15, 2025.** _ At the conclusion of this phase, LS3P will produce deliverables to include […] placements and allocations for […] bus bay locations, ticketing, etc. […] > > HDR will provide [architectural and engineering] services for 30% schematic design in accordance with its proposal dated May 15, 2025. Tasks included in this scope: design of _ **the busway from NC 54 to the transit center, adjacent apron** _, fencing, landscaping, site utilities, drainage, potential green storm water infrastructure including bioswales or raingardens, bus bays, bus canopies, hardscape including crosswalks and sidewalks, public address system, real time arrival and other public information and display boards, safety and security cameras, seating, and ADA compliance across elements. However, _maybe_ there’s still a chance that they’ll design something that better integrates with BRT and future rail services: > [@Hoffman memo](#): > > HDR will also provide A/E services for 30% schematic design of adjacent architectural buildings […] including customer service, ticketing, restrooms, waiting areas, bus dispatch, information technology, as well as _ **expansion capacity for future passenger rail support services** _ including rail ticketing, baggage handling, and the _ **expansion of customer facilities** _ to support bus and intercity rail passengers. > [@from the list of deliverables](#): > > [A] concept design deliverable, to GoTriangle, at the end of July is expected of all design team members. […] > > **Transit Civil (HDR)** > > - Concept site plans and enlarged plans, sections and elevations for 2 options related to the transit facility [Previous page](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-area-mall-life-style-center-rtp-redevelopments/1184.md?page=297) [Next page](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/raleigh-area-mall-life-style-center-rtp-redevelopments/1184.md?page=299)