I’m also a huge fan of Mexico City. Hopefully the country continues to let us visit in the future.
3 Likes
I know the people in Nashville and Richmond are very envious of RDU’s international service. I have heard them talk about it over in Nashville. How does that Raleigh Durham area do it?
2 Likes
RDU and Nashville were both AA hubs from 1986-87 and, at one point, both had LGW flights. The Nashville flight was dropped when AA de-hubbed Nashville, but the RDU flight was retained and shifted to Heathrow. Traffic patterns were fundamentally different. Nashville attracted a lot of tourist travel; that’s why Southwest was quick to take over most of AA’s gates in Nashville. Country music is not that big a draw outside the U.S. RDU had the advantage of multinational companies in RTP that kept the business cabin of the 767s to London full. Over time the economy seats filled up as the Triangle’s population grew. I had offices in both Nashville and RTP during the 1990s. The population mix in the Triangle is much more international than Nashville.
6 Likes
Well, vis-a-vis Richmond, by being more than 2 hours from Dulles.
I lived in Richmond for 4 years and never flew out of the airport. The options were limited and expensive. We would go to DC and flyout of Reagan National.
3 Likes
- RDU spends millions annually to maintain its critical runway.
- New $1 billion runway planned as part of $2.5 billion capital budget.
- International passenger traffic increased 50% in first quarter 2025.
- The new runway, which will cost more than $1 billion to build, is a key part of RDU’s $2.5 billion spending plan, which also includes terminal expansion and improvements to John Brantley Boulevard among other projects.
Airport officials have said federal dollars will be essential to the capital plan. Full story here https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2025/04/17/rdu-international-runway-repairs-cost-construction.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_45&cx_artPos=3#cxrecs_s
5 Likes
When we first heard about a replacement for runway 5L/23R, the motivation was a nonstop flight to Asia. The extra 639 feet makes a difference in summer. Now they’re mentioning Germany. We already have a nonstop to Frankfurt that uses an A330-300. LH wants to eliminate those aircraft from the fleet by 2027. It’s unclear to me whether the problem is that the A330-330 is weight-limited and cannot use its full cargo capacity or the replacement (probably an A350-900) would be weight-limited.
3 Likes
The ideal replacement for the a330 will be the 787. Lufthansa currently bases all of their a350s out of Munich.
1 Like
I checked the curves for a 787-8. At MTOW and sea level on a warm day, no wind and zero runway gradient (5L/23R is 0.6%), it needs about 10800 feet. I believe a 787-9 (which LH flies) takes more. They don’t need max fuel to get to Germany, of course, but the question is how much payload can they carry and get off the ground within the available runway The hotter the day, the worse it gets.
MIA has a 13,000 foot runway. ATL has a 12,390 foot runway but the field elevation is higher. IAD has 11,500. Only 10,000 at CLT. They plan to add a fourth runway but it would still be 10,000 feet.
2 Likes
CLT wanted 12,000+ but FAA said no
Yes true our new 4th parallel runway is under construction now at CLT. You can read the fact sheet on it. Very visible from our new CLT Overlook Park and while we can do 3 simultaneous landings and take offs now this allow a 4th plane to be teed up to take off or land once the 2 on either side land or take off. While Atlanta has 5 runways they can only do 3 simultaneous landings/take offs like we can do but they 2 extra ones to tee up on. But RDU needs that need new runway with all the growth and the fact it needs lots of repairs.
https://www.cltairport.com/news/construction-projects/runway-and-airfield-projects-page/
4 Likes
I totally didn’t understand that.
Basically the runways have to be far enough apart and the current 3 here in Charlotte are that allow for landings and take offs at the same time. Our new 4th one will allow a plane to be ready to take off once the others nearby are on the ground It is done to save time during busy “banks” as they call them when multiple flights are arriving and departing in a short time frame.
1 Like
almost.
The motivation for a replacement runway was (and always has been) due to the end of usable life of the existing main runway. There’s only so much patching and rehabbing that can coax a few more years of life from it.
The thought was: SINCE WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO REPLACE THE RUNWAY, do we need it to be longer in order to accommodate flights to farther away places with larger aircraft that never were even invented in the 1980’s, and larger heavier aircraft that would not have been planned to serve RDU when the new runway was built for the American Airlines hub.
Asia or the Middle East is a dream for anytime soon, but it may be possible.
1 Like
Someone else can correct me if I am wrong, but the focus on Germany is to connect the Indian subcontinent and Middle East to RDU. FRA is a massive airport with critical connections to South Asia and the Middle East, which is the more likely Asian route than to East Asia. It is simply too far and too little traffic to go direct to East Asia, especially with San Francisco, Los Angeles, and Seattle right there to shuffle people through.
It’s not the focus, but it is a benefit — that route is great for onward connectivity in general. Travelers to India and the ME are using it, but they also continue to use the other transatlantic flights, such as Air France’s Paris service, as well.
Air Canada plans to add Vancouver service starting June 5, which gives another west coast connection point to east Asia.
5L/23R was designed for a 767 to get to London or Paris. Its limitations became evident long before its concrete began to deteriorate from alkali-silica reactivity. I was at the airport in 1990 when a chartered Antonov 124 loaded with Nortel telecommunications equipment for the U.S. military in Desert Shield departed for Riyadh. They were weight-constrained and still used every inch of 23R. I wasn’t there in 2006 when the larger Antonov 225 flew a mission from RDU to Tanzania, but I suspect it used every inch as well. The aircraft departed at midnight when it was cooler.
The problem with any nonstop from the U.S. to India at the moment is the no-overfly restriction for Russia. These nonstops are also dodging Iran and, except for Air India, Afghanistan. I can’t imagine any new route being flown until this is resolved, if it ever is. (Welcome to the 1970s.)
FRA does cover the Middle East and South/Southwest Asia quite well, but most of those destinations are available on BA from LHR and AF from CDG. LHR and CDG are not to everyone’s liking, I will confess. But the real prize for RDU in that respect would be luring Emirates or Qatar.
There definitely was public buzz about RDU-China nonstops. https://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article200805224.html Note that the replacement for 5L/23R at that time was quoted as 11,500 feet. Later it was truncated to 10,600. I don’t think that’s long enough for China or India nonstop.
3 Likes
The longer runway helps with plans certain carriers have for west coast non stop route aircraft as well.
2 Likes
I know Alaska worked with the airport on the project. They can’t fully load their aircraft in the summer, which is partially why there is a second daily flight (and why they used to arrive within an hour of each other). The new length should allow for them to increase their loads by quite a bit.
3 Likes
I assume Alaska is using a 737-900ER or a 737 MAX 9 that needs a long takeoff roll when fully loaded. The 737 MAX 10 (which is on order by Alaska, American, Delta, and United although United is equivocating) will be even worse in that respect.