Saunders Street Planned Development - Five Horizons (Saunders/Lake Wheeler)


It is much more of a “could” at this point. The developer is seeking to get the largest entitlements possible.


So it seems like they’re open to any of the pods having one or more of those things but the max for the whole development won’t exceed these amounts… in any event it’s making something out of nothing I’m not going to complain about having more retail n such to walk to :slight_smile:


There’s some contradiction within the document itself on that it seems.

What you list comes from pages 33-34 of the pdf, part of the PD document. But the application form itself on page 2, and the development plan drawing on page 47, list the following:
Office: 1,042,600sf
Commercial/retail: 312,500sf
Hotel: 382 units
Residential: 975 units


They’re just going to keep us guessing. :slight_smile:


Really though this is an outlier for Raleigh, it’s not that crazy. North Hills is waaaaay bigger. Stuff like this is all over the place in Arlington and Fairfax Co Virginia, even in sort of off the beaten track neighborhoods that are nowhere near metro stations.

And really the right way to think of this is as basically just the other shoe dropping, in terms of Dix Park being the real estate behemoth we all knew it was going to be.


Good point. Mosaic district in Fairfax comes to mind.


I think smaller urban cores like this are the future of the Raleigh area. Downtown, North Hills, Crabtree, Fenton in East Cary, Veridea in Apex, RTP core, Chatham Park and downtown Durham are a few examples of what’s to come. Downtown Raleigh just needs to stay the most important. We also need to work on connecting all of these with transit and biking


This development raises the question—even more—as to what’s going to happen to Heritage Park. We’ve already seen plans to grid right through it with West and Dorothea. And now two other huge developments (this and Gateway) that are going to make it an island within DTR. Does it just stay the same? I can’t see how with West and Dorothea running through it.


reading this I have a concern for the residence that live there in Heritage Park. Where will they live if forced to move out to make way for this Development ??? I really would Hate to see that, at least place them in a more affordable area with access to Transit and schools. Nothing is being discuss about that.


Heritage Park is extremely low density. A redevelopment could double or triple the affordable units while going for an overall mix of 40 or so percent affordable. Construction could be phased to minimize displacement so there is a new unit waiting whenever somebody has to move.

Not sure the financing of such a scheme. Rebuilding while increasing the total affordable units would probably require some subsidy.


Yeah, will be interesting to see what happens there if COR’s eventual goal is to run West St. all the way down to Western.


Just got a chance to look at this… interestingly, the architect involved is the same one behind the concept for 213 South Harrington (the funky tower being proposed in the Warehouse District). The firm is based in Los Angeles, and it’s a different developer… wonder what the connection is here. For anyone who hasn’t seen the link:

It should be obvious that these are extreeeeemely conceptual and probably solely for the purpose of creating some buzz and fundraising. Will be interested to see how the project pans out, but I’m excited about the ambition represented here.


Wow… Can you send the link to the source of these pictures?


The link was posted way further up in the thread… (which is why I screenshotted the images; sometimes interesting things get buried when people like me don’t bother to click through lol!)

Again, presented with caution. These are not architectural designs. This is the equivalent of someone creating a lego themepark or creating a collage to illustrate the feel of a project before they actually start designing it, similar to the SOM masterplan for the civic campus.


Not that there’s any new info or images in it that’s not already in this thread, but the TBJ also has an article up about this. (PS: the site is also free to view until Friday to celebrate National Women’s Week, apparently?)


The application seeks a zoning change that would allow for more than 1 million square feet of office development and 312,500 square feet of retail space on the site, in addition to lodging and residential uses. Building heights under the proposal could be as much as 20 stories.
The application describes the development as having “a creative and design-oriented identity and sense of place where pedestrians take priority” and notes that it would result in dense housing development within walking distance of Union Station and Dorothea Dix Park.


I see TBJ is now reporting on this proposal. What are the feelings on this actually happening. I think it would be amazing to start helping out the southern side of the city.


It’s an odd location for, what was it?, 15, 18, and 20 story buildings. There is nothing around with height in any direction. It would also seem like an odd juxtaposition of auto repair and used tires basically being next door to what sounds to me like luxury space. The single family homes in this area are very tiny, older homes. I know dtr will eventually creep further south but this project seems like it will really feel out of place. I’m not against it, just find it an odd choice without any other further plans of redevelopment of the area. And I’m also really curious what will happen with Fuller Heights subdivision, especially being sandwiched between the future Dix Park and developments such as this one.


Dix is going to be a real estate juggernaut of epic proportions. Fuller Heights as we know it may be a goner. It may have been affordable once, but no longer. Everybody who owns property there already knows full well what they are sitting on.

Any attempt to prevent buyouts and multifamily rezonings will only wind up in a spate of teardown/rebuilds with travertine marble
countertops, eleven foot ceilings, and six times the square footage. Would that really be a better outcome than lining Lake Wheeler Road with midrise apartments?


So… before I let Jeff answer this, I want to ask…

Did we all just collectively agree here that we’re okay with gentrifying this place?


If by gentrification you mean taking a piece of land which is essentially an empty lot with trees, generating zero tax revenue for the city and a forward facing entrance to the city’s south side …yeah, I’m cool with that.

That’s more in the progress box