# The future of downtown's historic neighborhoods **URL:** \ **Category:** The Pub\ **Created:** [June 28, 2018, 2:23pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/the-future-of-downtowns-historic-neighborhoods/339 "2018-06-28T14:23:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Tenkai](https://community.dtraleigh.com/user_avatar/community.dtraleigh.com/tenkai/32/2845_2.png) [@Tenkai](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/Tenkai)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2023, 2:57pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/the-future-of-downtowns-historic-neighborhoods/339/203 "2023-03-08T14:57:58Z")
Deferred again until the 21st due to ongoing conversations with the neighbors. > **[City Council Evening Session](https://raleigh.granicus.com/player/clip/7303?view_id=24&redirect=true&h=9a61db489741bbb475001f7216a847c0)** > > Live and Recorded Public meetings of City Council Evening Session for City of Raleigh, NC ---
**Author:** ![ADUsSomeday](https://community.dtraleigh.com/user_avatar/community.dtraleigh.com/adussomeday/32/13944_2.png) [@ADUsSomeday](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/ADUsSomeday)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 3:08am UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/the-future-of-downtowns-historic-neighborhoods/339/204 "2023-03-09T03:08:16Z")
What was the Mordecai and Peace project? ---
**Author:** ![wcs15](https://community.dtraleigh.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/w/5f8ce5/32.png) [@wcs15](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/wcs15)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 3:19am UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/the-future-of-downtowns-historic-neighborhoods/339/205 "2023-03-09T03:19:28Z")
I was referencing two separate projects: - the Clover Lane rezoning in Mordecai ([https://cityofraleigh0drupal.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/drupal-prod/COR22/Z-0043-22.pdf](https://cityofraleigh0drupal.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/drupal-prod/COR22/Z-0043-22.pdf)) - the rezoning at Peace and West ([https://cityofraleigh0drupal.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/drupal-prod/COR22/Z-054-22.pdf](https://cityofraleigh0drupal.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/drupal-prod/COR22/Z-054-22.pdf)) Both projects drew significant neighborhood opposition. ---
**Author:** ![John](https://community.dtraleigh.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@John](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/John)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 4:39am UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/the-future-of-downtowns-historic-neighborhoods/339/206 "2023-03-09T04:39:29Z")
Re: the Johnson St. rezoning. On the plus side, I am more than happy when parking gets wrapped, and I certainly want to see all sides activated at the street level. WTF are they complaining about having outdoor dining on the St. Mary’s side? They have that now! It exists now at My Way Tavern. What’s the complaint? As for 12 floors, what’s the complaint there? How does that affect Forest Park? Heck, the freaking crappy senior housing across the street is already that tall. Full disclosure, this is my neighborhood. I’ll see this from my terrace and it doesn’t bother me one bit. I’m way more concerned about the quality of the project than I am about the height of it. ---
**Author:** ![svp](https://community.dtraleigh.com/user_avatar/community.dtraleigh.com/svp/32/18832_2.png) [@svp](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/svp)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 1:50pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/the-future-of-downtowns-historic-neighborhoods/339/207 "2023-03-09T13:50:40Z")
OUTSIDE DINING IS A HARD HELL YES!!! AND what is the big deal about 12 stories?? In reality they won’t be able to tell the difference between eight and twelve stories unless they sit there and count the floors. The things people get hung up about is amazing to me. ---
**Author:** ![mike](https://community.dtraleigh.com/user_avatar/community.dtraleigh.com/mike/32/26_2.png) [@mike](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/mike)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 1:56pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/the-future-of-downtowns-historic-neighborhoods/339/208 "2023-03-09T13:56:05Z")
I thought I heard one of the conditions was the building would be 5 stories at the St. Mary’s frontage? ---
**Author:** ![John](https://community.dtraleigh.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@John](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/John)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 6:02pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/the-future-of-downtowns-historic-neighborhoods/339/209 "2023-03-09T18:02:30Z")
But they also asked for the Boylan side to be limited to 8 floors. Right now the Paramount is already 8 stories in height\* on the corner of Boylan and Johnson, and Glenwood Towers exceeds 12 floors. \*I’m saying 8 floors in height because the parking garage on that corner is really 3 floors high, even though it’s technically only 2 floors of parking. ---
**Author:** ![evan.j.bost](https://community.dtraleigh.com/user_avatar/community.dtraleigh.com/evan.j.bost/32/539_2.png) [@evan.j.bost](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/evan.j.bost)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 6:15pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/the-future-of-downtowns-historic-neighborhoods/339/210 "2023-03-09T18:15:24Z")
Reading between the lines after watching the public hearing, the Forest Park residents know that reducing height will reduce the number of residential units. They are using the comp plan, “height transition zones” and other plan-isms to dictate less neighbors. They said “we will be happy at 8 stories, and will enthusiastically endorse the project with that concession”. They literally just want less people living near them. ---
**Author:** ![Jake](https://community.dtraleigh.com/user_avatar/community.dtraleigh.com/jake/32/34692_2.png) [@Jake](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/Jake)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 6:23pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/the-future-of-downtowns-historic-neighborhoods/339/211 "2023-03-09T18:23:20Z")
TBH, these kinda bad-faith “community” requests should be immediately and entirely ignored. Give a _legitimate_ reason for your request, or else STFU. ---
**Author:** ![John](https://community.dtraleigh.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@John](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/John)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 9:10am UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/the-future-of-downtowns-historic-neighborhoods/339/212 "2023-03-10T09:10:35Z")
Why is deference paid to single family home neighborhoods adjacent to downtown and not to the folks who are actually living in downtown proper? Do I get to weigh-in on what happens in their neighborhood and have my voice be more important than theirs? Is that how this works? ---
**Author:** ![oakcityyimby](https://community.dtraleigh.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@oakcityyimby](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/oakcityyimby)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 12:19pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/the-future-of-downtowns-historic-neighborhoods/339/213 "2023-03-10T12:19:42Z")
Because they work together and often vote as a bloc, with development being one of their core issues. A loud minority who will switch their vote over an issue is worth pandering to, versus a diffuse majority that just see it as one issue among many. ---
**Author:** ![OakdaleZach](https://community.dtraleigh.com/user_avatar/community.dtraleigh.com/oakdalezach/32/20181_2.png) [@OakdaleZach](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/OakdaleZach)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2023, 1:42pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/the-future-of-downtowns-historic-neighborhoods/339/214 "2023-03-11T13:42:31Z")
Where can I find more info on the Casa - Brookside project? ---
**Author:** ![mike](https://community.dtraleigh.com/user_avatar/community.dtraleigh.com/mike/32/26_2.png) [@mike](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/mike)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2023, 7:33pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/the-future-of-downtowns-historic-neighborhoods/339/215 "2023-03-14T19:33:52Z")
Dunno. Only other thing I can see is that it seems like its the same group behind the 721 E Lenoir townhomes. Doesn’t seem “CASA” related. ---
**Author:** ![dtraleigh](https://community.dtraleigh.com/user_avatar/community.dtraleigh.com/dtraleigh/32/32735_2.png) [@dtraleigh](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/dtraleigh)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2023, 12:34pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/the-future-of-downtowns-historic-neighborhoods/339/216 "2023-03-16T12:34:21Z")
Developing on the fringes of downtown must be lucrative. I was taking a look at the Clover Lane rezoning more in depth and this condition list is astounding. Here’s the latest list. (I stitched them together for dramatic effect) All came from here: [http://go.boarddocs.com/nc/raleigh/Board.nsf/goto?open&id=CKBR4N6C1433](http://go.boarddocs.com/nc/raleigh/Board.nsf/goto?open&id=CKBR4N6C1433) ![clover_conditions](https://d3tmycllq5yp1y.cloudfront.net/original/3X/2/2/2230db81cd7e54eb7acead7fb2817f0c26e079ab.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![OakdaleZach](https://community.dtraleigh.com/user_avatar/community.dtraleigh.com/oakdalezach/32/20181_2.png) [@OakdaleZach](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/OakdaleZach)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2023, 1:23pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/the-future-of-downtowns-historic-neighborhoods/339/217 "2023-03-16T13:23:40Z")
Yeah, I live in Mordecai and the unofficial CAC has really fought this. Ultimately, I think there’s a lot of demand to live within walking distance from North Person Street, so I’d imagine the developers were willing to make these concessions ---
**Author:** ![oakcityyimby](https://community.dtraleigh.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@oakcityyimby](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/oakcityyimby)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2023, 1:49pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/the-future-of-downtowns-historic-neighborhoods/339/218 "2023-03-16T13:49:38Z")
I’m struggling to understand why this is the hill they’re planting their flag on. Wake Forest doesn’t have neighborhood character, it’s a loud, fast connector between downtown and points north with plenty of transit access, not a cute Mordecai street with kids playing basketball in their driveways. Plus what’s being replaced is 85% parking lot. Some people just hate change. ---
**Author:** ![ADUsSomeday](https://community.dtraleigh.com/user_avatar/community.dtraleigh.com/adussomeday/32/13944_2.png) [@ADUsSomeday](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/ADUsSomeday)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2023, 6:10pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/the-future-of-downtowns-historic-neighborhoods/339/219 "2023-03-16T18:10:22Z")
Great example of making it so hard that only the deep pockets can do it. ---
**Author:** ![NoRaAintAllBad](https://community.dtraleigh.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/n/9de053/32.png) [@NoRaAintAllBad](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/NoRaAintAllBad)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2023, 1:10pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/the-future-of-downtowns-historic-neighborhoods/339/220 "2023-03-17T13:10:43Z")
File this under infrastructure with a dash of ‘vanishing’ NOAH…Sinkholes in Oakwood, oh my - more dangerous than shadows! > **[Sinkhole under Oakwood home forces tenants out; city will step in with fix](https://www.wral.com/sinkhole-under-oakwood-home-forces-tenants-out-city-will-step-in-with-fix/20767519/)** > > A massive sinkhole has formed under a house in the historic Oakwood neighborhood in Raleigh, forcing the tenants to leave. ---
**Author:** ![pBeez](https://community.dtraleigh.com/user_avatar/community.dtraleigh.com/pbeez/32/2461_2.png) [@pBeez](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/pBeez)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2023, 2:08pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/the-future-of-downtowns-historic-neighborhoods/339/221 "2023-03-17T14:08:59Z")
I didn’t hear what caused this - was it failed swear, storm water? ---
**Author:** ![NoRaAintAllBad](https://community.dtraleigh.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/n/9de053/32.png) [@NoRaAintAllBad](https://community.dtraleigh.com/u/NoRaAintAllBad)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2023, 2:59pm UTC](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/the-future-of-downtowns-historic-neighborhoods/339/222 "2023-03-17T14:59:36Z")
The article doesn’t really state, although it does reference unstable soil and the storm water dept moving to ‘highest’ priority… [Previous page](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/the-future-of-downtowns-historic-neighborhoods/339.md?page=10) [Next page](https://community.dtraleigh.com/t/the-future-of-downtowns-historic-neighborhoods/339.md?page=12)