I think housing affordability is very necessary in any city and especially a city undergoing rapid change with no real transit. And the most efficient way to have affordable housing units is probably to scatter them about the city within other developments rather than in standalone communities.
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I donât think pushing less affluent people out of downtown is the answer. Having folks of all socioeconomic backgrounds contributes to a healthy and diverse community. Itâs even more important for folks, who may not own or be able to afford their own private vehicle, to have easy access to the bus depot so they can âeasilyâ get around town. Unless Raleigh builds other micro depots around town (OTB) where transfers for multiple routes can easily be made, I think itâs a bit naive to think that not having any affordable housing ITB wouldnât be a further detriment on certain populations.
I TOTALLY get that itâs not reasonable to have or âforceâ AH (whatever that means to you) on the most valuable properties in downtown, but downtown is far from being swelled with developments that affordable & mixed housing canât be a thing. There are far too many undeveloped lots just sitting around for us to be talking about displacing people for the sake of making way for the wealthy and who can afford $1000 watches. Who exactly is courting all the super affluent ITB and OTB Raleighites to move downtown, away from their chosen lush lawns and acres and SFH neighborhoods, to make way for more affordable housing in North, West, and Northwest Raleigh?
The tone of animosity towards âaffordable housingâ around downtown by some on the forum is kind ofâŚsad, uncomfortable really. Yes, AH and mixed income developments should be spread all across, not just in certain areas/outskirts of town, but that also includes downtown. I donât think that anyone is arguing for majority AH downtown. But if high-end development is generally on the rise downtown, why canât a little portion of all new development be fore folks who maybe arenât earning $80k+ a year? That literally doesnât make sense.
Are less affluent people less worthy than others to enjoy our downtown spaces, parks, and amenities? To enjoy living near walkable areas to downtown districts? To be able to use and have alternative transportation options to get to work? Isnât that what we want, more density and quality of life for all our citizens? Or do we just want to push âpoorâ people to the fringes and only make way for the wealthy and transplants?
I may be wrong, but to my knowledge, thereâs very little affordable housing in North and West Raleigh (the little affordable housing that was around North Hills and Crabtree have been torn down and redeveloped into âluxuryâ apartments). And what used to be the more affordable /âless desireableâ areas of town (east & southeast raleigh) are seeing homes being snatched up by folks who might not need them (aka turned into rental properties for profit), and flipped, thus continuing the strain on those communities as existing populations are being priced out and pushed out even farther from town.
[& before anyone jumps down my throat about flipping/owning rental properties- no, I donât believe owning property or buying a house and doing as you please with YOUR property is âevilâ or inherently âbadâ, but I do think itâs naive to believe that the process of flipping for profit doesnât/canât have negative impacts on members of (previously primarily low income) existing communities, or just outright choosing not to care because it doesnât affect you/not your issue.]
I donât see how we can talk about relatively âAHâ in downtown being a âbad thingâ without discussing these aspects too.
Some of the commentary here, and in some other threads, comes off a bit classist whenever AH is mentioned (even if itâs not intended). Itâs really been rubbing me the wrong way and I just couldnât hold my thoughts anymore.
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I think the point is that most of us believe that this AH in downtown such as will be put in Kaneâs Phase 3 isnât really affordable for those who are in the most need for AH.
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Or not apply the same ârulesâ to others. Precedent set!
My problem isnât with affordable housing downtown. My problem is with low density, suburban style and auto-prioritized affordable housing being developed downtown. If we are going to have auto-prioritized affordable housing development, then it should be developed outside the core of the city where weâll get more housing bang for our bucks.
Itâs exactly the same value proposition that market rate buyers/renters decide for themselves.
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Thank you for sharing your prospective. How do you feel about local businesses? They have high rents because they are in downtown locations, therefore the cost of goods tend to be higher. Should we force developers to create âaffordable spacesâ for their businesses? And from what I have read on here, it doesnât sound like anyone is trying to push anyone out⌠it just makes sense financially, that you can develop more flexible areas in areas that are more affordable. There are bus stops throughout the triangle that can get you to the core of downtown to enjoy all the amenities. I donât think the solution of forcing a developer to make affordable units is the answer. Is the city off setting the cost the developer had to pay for the land? Phase III is one of the most desirable locations in RaleighâŚso why canât a developer charge top dollar to live there? If we look at being âfairâ ⌠how would it be fair for one person to pay a higher price for their unit and someone else to pay less just because that person makes more money? Developers are creating for affordable options ⌠on their own⌠but they can do that because the locations are not directly downtown on the most expensive land.
I also think everyone agrees⌠w need affordable housing options,⌠in my opinion, I just donât think the city should have the right to force a developer to so in their development. I think there has to be another solution.
I would also note, it sounds like you have more of a âtoneâ towards people that are more well off than the people on this thread discussing affordable housing options. It would be great to discuss and come up with a solution vs. not agreeing with people and saying they are being a certain way towards certain people. From what I have seen from the majority on these threads⌠most are caring and want to better Raleigh and come up with solutions⌠and are not negative towards any âgroupâ. But I truly appreciate your opinion⌠and thank you for sharing.
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Equating businesses to people is comparing apples to oranges and btw there are many programs for entrepreneurship and small businesses.
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I am also very against any suburban style/auto-prioritized development downtown. I definitely agree it makes more sense, if we must have them (and realistically we will for quite some time), for them to be built outside of downtown. Regarding Heritage Park and even Gateway Park right behind it, Iâm all down for them to be redeveloped into higher density mixed income walkable areas that arenât the semi-isolated (inward focused) states they currently are. I want them to be inclusive areas to all people and contribute to the overall feel of the South Street neighborhood. (Or whatever that general neighborhood area is called).
(Also, thank you for not being condescending when stating your thoughts.)
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Think about it, through their eyes (people living in affordable housing downtown) some of the people who live in this area have been there forever and will eventually be forced to leave due to high tax increases. Property values will go up drastically once all of these projects are finished, forcing older people and mainly minorities out of their houses. Also, they tend to work downtown as waiters, garbage workers, etc. and canât afford to just pack up and move. This issue is partly why some people who are in the path of Dorian right now arenât leaving because, one they might not have any form of transportation, enough money to leave, or just donât want to leave the house they mightâve spent 10 years to buy.
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If you read my comment without blinders, youâd understand I said and agree that AH should not be âforcedâ onto a developer. And no, I donât have âfeelingsâ about affluent citizens of our community. I think you are projecting things here. I clearly stated that, whether or not it was intended, that certain phrasing does indeed sound gatekeeper-ish towards people who canât afford the more expensive places downtownâŚas in it sounds like itâs been suggested that certain people shouldnât be able to live downtown just because of escalating costs of living. I never once stated that I believe AH should be placed in the SH development specifically. I was simply acknowledging a persistent tone thatâs been present in this thread, and pops up in others from time to time.
And yes, I actually DO believe most retail locations should have smaller footprints to encourage small businesses to thrive. I donât see how thatâs wrong either? That would benefit everyone instead of making folks who would like to open a business turn to the suburbs and their shopping centers. shrug
Edit: also, I only mentioned North, Northwest, and West (excluding college town) Raleigh because I canât think of hardly any existing places/neighborhoods that wouldnât politically push back against building affordable housing near their communities. So where else OTB would COR be placing them other than where they are already predominantly found in South, Southeast, and East Raleigh, or worse- pushed out to our satellite communities of Knightdale or Garner?..again âisolatingâ them in certain communities/sections of town. Letâs not forget that East Raleigh is still practically a food desert.
I just canât see folks not getting up in arms for AH around Wakefield Plantation, Leesville, Six Forks North, Lake Lynn, Crabtree, Sawmill, North Hills (technically OTB), wade Ave, Lassiter Mill, etc etc. Letâs be real, thereâd be tons of political pushback.
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In order for major issues like this one to be solved and combated city leaders and local voters need to have an open mind when taking stances against people who donât have as many privileges as others. This city council is trying to do that and I am proud!
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Iâm sure Iâm the only one with this stance but I had to say it 
Iâve been saying this for quite some time on several of these threads. The biggest problem with SH, in my opinion, is the suburban sized footprints of the presumed parcels. They all seem to be set up for chain businesses who can afford and need larger spaces. We need more retail the size of The Wine Feed or North Street Beer Station. In an interesting city, many of the more interesting places are the tiny footprint businesses that are rich in experience.
Make commercial rents downtown affordable by offering smaller parcels. Small businesses need to start somewhere and small is usually a lot easier to do than large.
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One thing that might be helpful for homeowners that are rapidly gentrifying neighborhoods would be to defer any tax increases until that particular homeowner sells. Perhaps this might apply to people who have lived there for 10 or 20 years or more. Thatâs the biggest issue I hear with my neighborâs is the tax increases are what ultimately forces them out.
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Just to clarify, I am referring to my neighbors who are homeowners not renters. Iâm not sure that this would help renters in these neighborhoods.
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Because everyone knows you cannot be a progressive downtown hipster and believe in a pure market system. If you cannot afford something, we will force developers to find a way even at a loss for them. Why does this not apply to me? I want to live in a mansion in Wake Forest. I demand a developer build it for me and I expect to only pay 1K per month. Developer, your move. (off soapbox where this becomes a slippery slope of me, me, me, thanks)
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Could be workable as long as any tax abatement is repaid from the proceeds of an eventual sale.
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Let me ask you, do you think thereâs such thing as a âpureâ market system? Developers benefit from being able to work within whatever system they are in. When they buy the land do you think the value for their projects is only generated from their project alone? A number of people in these threads seem to assume that the developers are the only ones creating any value when really itâs a whole host of other things, often things that were paid for by others (including taxpayers), and itâs simple and responsible that community leaders ask those who participate in the cityâs growth, help address the issues that rise to the top of the communityâs list. Itâs almost reckless if they donât, especially if developers are asking for exceptions. This is often through taxes, but it can be through other tools like inclusionary zoning. Some people here are right though that it should be more predictable, and to that end we need change at the state legislature to allow communities to determine which of these tools are best for them and let them use them.
Iâve also noticed a number of folks over on the Penmarc thread questioning the connection between AH and that site, and at the very least theyâd be good to remember that this site was very likely chosen because itâs in an Opportunity Zone, meaning the developers will get significant tax breaks exactly because it is located near people with low incomes and this development in theory is supposed to help the people in this area. Iâm not saying that it wonât, but itâs naive to think the developers are creating something out of nothing here (or anywhere else)
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Meanwhile, Durham votes to approve the Expanded Housing Choices plan, which will allow more, and more varied, housing mostly in Durhamâs Urban Tier, generally within two miles of downtown.
Read more here: https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/counties/durham-county/article234688732.html#storylink=cpy
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If the free market alone was capable of addressing the problem of housing affordability, we wouldnât be talking about it.
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