I would like to know if the influx of large companies establishing a foothold in our area is influencing the conversation with the various stakeholders, especially those who may be resistant. For example, the arrival of Google in Durham, Apple in the Triangle and Amazon warehouse in Garner, it seems to me these make strong arguments in favor of the project, along with many others.
I thought Leo’s last question and my 6th question on my first post kinda overlap with this. Sounds like level boarding is a pretty big concern for us, both for user-friendliness and schedule performance 
The Greater Triangle Commuter Rail project, as conceived and presented so far, is very much a “Commuter Rail” line in the traditional North American sense.
More...
- Schedules heavily focused on the weekday peak (“8-2-8-2” or “5-1-5-1” etc)
- Conventional bi-level trains pulled by freight-derived diesel locomotives
- Low-level platforms requiring a step up to board trains (slowing access for those in wheelchairs or with strollers/bikes)
- Staffing with multiple RR personnel per train (Engineer, Conductor, perhaps even Assistant Conductors?)
- Sharing tracks with freight trains
- Widely spaced (3-5+ miles) stations
- Emphasizes park-and-ride at most stations, rather than bus transfers, bikes, or walking
For some time, though, among transit advocates, but increasingly so in the COVID era, and especially as we look to how things will be post-COVID, there has been a growing realization and consensus that this service model is inefficient, inequitable, and inadequate for the future.
More...
- Inefficient
Need to buy trains and build infrastructure to support peak schedules, but only run it for a few hours a day; manpower intensive w/ 2 or more employees per train, requires split shifts which are more expensive and harder to staff - Inequitable
Heavily emphasizes wealthy suburbanites commuting to 9-5 downtown office jobs; rooted explicitly in racism, wherein RR’s like the Long Island RR first introduced these practices in the 1950s and 1960s by curtailing stops in inner-city neighborhoods so suburbanites could get a faster ride and not have to mix with “those” people from the city - Inadequate
Peak commuting, and in-person office work in general, are down in this age of “Work From Home”, and it’s anybody’s guess as to if or when it will recover. In contrast, off-peak transit use has fallen less and been more resilient in the wake of COVID. Even traditional commuter rail agencies like Metra and MBTA have been rethinking their role, and focusing less on express rush hour service and more on all-day, all-purposes travel.
Has GoTriangle considered going back to a more “Regional Rail” model that operates closer to rapid transit - with more frequent all-day service, level boarding, multiple-unit trains, etc? What would the impacts of this be with regards to operating and especially capital costs?
3 Likes
The Greater Triangle Commuter Rail Feasibility study included this table regarding costs:
-
Is there any breakdown of the allocation of these costs? EG, how much will be spent on parking structures, double tracking, platforms, vehicles, station headhouses/waiting rooms, ancillary streetscape improvements, etc.
-
It is quite shocking to me that there is no difference in capital cost between the 40 train-per-day 8-2-8-2 and 20 train-per-day 5-1-5-1 options, and a shockingly small difference with the 3-1-3-0. Since it seems like capital costs do not increase much as service increases, could we go even past 40 trains per day without a lot more capital cost? (Dallas’s TRE runs about 60; A 30-minute, all-day schedule would be about 70; Denver’s A-line runs 144(!!)) Have you looked at options? (I read a discussion about a possible “12-8-12-8” pattern, which would be 80 trains per day, here, lifted from a discussion GoTriangle had with the DCHC MPO this year.)
-
I’m curious to hear more about how, and to what degree, this service will interact with, and share tracks/platforms with, freight, Amtrak, and future high-speed trains. Is the light midday/late evening schedule (8-2-8-2 and 5-1-5-1) required in order to avoid interference with freight? Have you had discussions with Amtrak and Norfolk-Southern to talk about timetables and determine how this will work?
2 Likes
One finding thanks to recent research on escalating transit construction costs is that agencies should Hire In-House, Don’t Use Consultants. While I recognize that GoTriangle is not the MBTA or MTA, and that bootstrapping a complete rail engineering team will be difficult, evidence does appear to indicate that transit projects are generally better-managed and better-executed when agencies have more, and more capable, in-house staff to handle more of the work, not least because it helps to capture lessons learned into institutional knowledge held freely by the agencies themselves, rather than by private consulting firms who might then turn around and charge a premium for it.
Basically, it seems that, to the degree consultants must be involved, it works best when the agency really knows what it is doing and is clearly in the drivers’ seat, and the consultant is clearly subordinate, with their role limited to (mostly) lower-level details instead of important high level decisions.
So, with that said: how many full-time staffers does GoTriangle have dedicated to this work? Do you plan to staff up? Or will there be a barebones in-house staff managing consultants? What is the budget for in-house staff versus the budget for contracted professional services?
Relatedly, I understand NCDOT’s rail division has a substantial and capable in-house engineering and project management team. Although they may be busy with all the work they currently have on their plates, is there something GoTriangle could do to leverage and learn from this capability and expertise that already exists in a (hopefully) cooperative public agency?
3 Likes
While @colbyjd3 explained the benefits of high platforms, has the benefit of cars accessible from low platforms, both locomotive pulled (Bombardier Bi-Levels, the fresh sheet cars Alstom is making for Metra) and EMU (Stadler’s FLIRT line, the EMU’s they’re making for Caltrain) been compared in contrast? They may be a bit more feasible in terms of cost and are largely proven.
Also, do you have a plan if Duke decides to sabotage this try. I know the suggestion for a planned West Durham station has shuttle buses, probably operated by Duke as they have the fleet and they rotate through buses as it is, but given their petty past can they be overriden?
1 Like
Hello, DTRaleigh Community!
Thanks for wanting to learn more about the Greater Triangle Commuter Rail Project! readyforrailnc.com
We’ll start answering the submitted questions here shortly. And we have someone monitoring new questions as they come up, but we’re going to answer in order received.
Thanks for joining us!
18 Likes
Hi, Leo!
Is there anything to share about planning bus routes (new or modified) around future stations?
ANSWER: Commuter rail plans have always included an expansion of bus service that will help move people from rail stations to their destinations. The commuter rail project includes stops at Union Station in downtown Raleigh, at the Cary Depot in downtown Cary and at Durham Station in downtown Durham. Passengers will be able to easily connect to bus routes at these stops.
GoTriangle is building a bus facility next to Raleigh Union Station that will make it especially easy to connect to buses from the commuter rail line. GoTriangle also plans to relocate the Regional Transit Center adjacent to the proposed RTP station.
1 Like
Are there any indicators GoTriangle is looking for in order to seriously consider evening and weekend service?
ANSWER: The currently assumed weekday, peak-focused service pattern was developed to be compatible with required maintenance windows for freight operations in the corridor and to match federal funding criteria. This amount of service also matches the funding assumptions in the currently adopted county transit plans. Concurrent with opening of the rail, GoTriangle would make adjustments to our bus network to complement rail. This could likely include faster, and possibly more frequent evening and weekend connections along the rail corridor.
1 Like
Hello, all! We were going to try to answer the questions individually by poster, but we seem to be limited in how many responses we can put on one post. So all of the questions and answers will show up individually. Thanks!.
Is GoTriangle considering some kind of rail pass that can also be used on other triangle-area bus systems? (if not, could you? 
)
ANSWER: Yes, fare payment method will be integrated among rail and bus transit. Additionally, GoTriangle currently contracts with regional employers and educational institutions to supply the GoPass to their employees and students, and that pass allows people to ride any transit agency in the Triangle. We imagine a scenario where that pass could include rail, but determining fares and payment methods is far down the road at this point.
6 Likes
The site mentions the project having an economic impact. Can you expand on what that means exactly?
ANSWER: We are in fact nearing the end of an economic impact analysis that we will be ready to share with the public soon. It looks at things like the monetary value of time savings, of greater access to better jobs especially for no-car households and of creating denser employment centers.
The project also will lead to scores of construction jobs and then permanent jobs once the line is open.
In broad terms, the project also gives us a chance to better manage inevitable growth by connecting the Triangle’s vibrant downtowns and universities and by offering the opportunity to create new dense, pedestrian-oriented communities that include offices, homes, retail space, parks, grocery stores and restaurants near new rail stations.
Such development can grow the tax base that supports all of our critical public services.
The Triangle J Council of Governments recently studied affordable housing opportunities within a mile of the rail corridor. Investing in a high-quality transit network that includes commuter rail close to affordable housing would help many Triangle households of modest means, the study found.
Key findings: 27 percent of available affordable housing within the three counties is within a mile of the rail corridor and 37 percent of Durham County’s legally binding affordable residential units are within a mile of the corridor.
Read about that here: https://www.readyforrailnc.com/news/crt-housing-report/
4 Likes
Has there been a lot of thought behind making it easy for bike users to also use the train?
ANSWER: Absolutely. Bicycle and pedestrian access to train stations will be part of the plans and designs, and bikes will be allowed on the train!
8 Likes
With the pandemic-induced global shift away from working traditional office hours (and, as a result, the decline in what we generally think of as “rush hour”), is this project reconsidering their focus on commuters/peak service and instead shifting toward a true regional rail model that will benefit all users?
ANSWER: We are exploring opportunities for more frequent service than was assumed for this study.
4 Likes
The City of Raleigh has been working hard on their Equitable Development Around Transit project for the planned BRT corridors. Is GoTriangle similarly planning to work with local municipalities to develop TOD and walkable neighborhoods around planned stations, once they are finalized?
ANSWER: GoTriangle will continue to support the planning efforts of all local municipalities, especially efforts related to transit station areas. Compact, walkable development patterns are essential to supporting major transit investments and achieving regional transportation goals such as limiting vehicles miles traveled, reducing emissions and supporting equitable and affordable transportation and housing options. It is also an important consideration in federal funding criteria. The current study includes analysis of future land use patterns and opportunities in station areas, led by TJCOG. This analysis would provide the foundation for further coordination with municipalities in future phases of the project.
2 Likes
The Triangle has a long history of rail projects that never came to fruition. What steps are being taken this time around to ensure that this project actually moves into the construction phase? Additionally, is GoTriangle working with other cities or consultants that have real-world experience in implementing these types of rail systems?
ANSWER: When GoTriangle became the project sponsor, we convened a project management committee that includes key stakeholders including representatives from NCDOT, area counties, two metropolitan planning organizations, the Research Triangle Foundation and the North Carolina Railroad Company.
This committee has been meeting regularly to review and discuss study findings and opportunities for the commuter rail project.
GoTriangle’s public engagement team also has been meeting and sharing project updates with any stakeholder groups that request information and a presentation about the project.
Our consultant STV has lots of experience on transportation projects of all kinds. For more information, you can check them out at stvinc.com.
A primary goal of the current study is to reach consensus among all stakeholders regarding the project concept (service level, station locations, infrastructure required to support that service, etc.) and whether to proceed with designing and implementing that project, including entry into the federal process. The project concept would provide the foundation for further agreements that will be necessary to implement the project.
6 Likes
Hey, Colby!
Answer to No. 4:
American commuter/regional rail systems often tend to utilize locomotive-hauled consists, which tend to accelerate and decelerate much more slowly then their multiple-unit counterparts. Are DMUs being considered for rolling stock?
ANSWER: We are evaluating various rolling stock options, including locomotive-hauled trains and DMUs, like those used on commuter rail systems around the country. Many factors affect acceleration, top speed and average speed. The current study is evaluating train performance and overall rail operations with these factors in mind.
2 Likes
What are the major roadblocks to getting Commuter Rail implemented? (Funding? Political support? Community support? Potential ridership?)
ANSWER: Currently, both Wake and Durham counties have the commuter rail project in their transit plans, although Durham is in the process of updating its plan. The two counties eventually will have to create a cost-sharing agreement for the project. At the end of the current study phase, governing bodies should have all the information they need to decide whether to proceed with the project into the federal grant pipeline. GoTriangle launched the website readyforrailnc.com earlier this year to help the community stay informed about the project’s progress, and our public engagement team and project leaders have given scores of presentations about the project over the past year so that people can stay on top of the study process. You can even ask for a presentation here: Community Involvement / Meetings - Ready For Rail
2 Likes
Does an announcement like Apple opening an RTP campus make CR easier or harder? I could see the potential increases in ridership being helpful, but maybe Apple employee aren’t expected to be riders, or maybe it just makes necessary ROW more expensive?
ANSWER: Even if Apple employees don’t end up being commuter rail passengers, they’re going to be Triangle commuters and residents and so will benefit from the project. As we’ve seen over the past few years, most major companies seeking to relocate or open new offices want mass transit. They want access to as many employees with manageable commutes as possible and a high quality of life for their workers so they can attract the best.
6 Likes
Is there a vision (or visions) for how CR fits into the long-term of the Triangle’s transportation mix as the region continues to grow? What does the future of the service look like 10 years after completion? 20 years? 50?
ANSWER: The Metropolitan Planning Organizations in our region produce long-range transportation plans that demonstrate how commuter rail service works together with other transit services as part of a regional transportation network. The 2045 Metropolitan Transportation Plan (MTP) envisions a connected network of rail, bus rapid transit and bus service connecting our major population and employment centers.
1 Like