- Because it’s unlikely, you’d rather be seen as ‘right’ or ‘realistic’ than be a part of changing those odds. That’s where we differ. Raleigh has no shortage of ‘realistic’ thinkers. Realistic thinking has had us dragging our feet on transit, affordable housing, etc. Did you ever think that the way you approach some of these issues are the REASON we have these issues to begin with? This city needs more people willing to take action against the status-quo and fight uphill battles against odds that seem insurmountable. If you want to be a city of progress and innovation, you have to have the courage to break the mold. Maybe you don’t win, or your outcomes aren’t exactly what you had hoped, but the ingredients to progress are are courage, failure, and resilience.
-As for the “What should Raleigh be focusing on.” line you quoted. Yeah, Transit is a right now problem we have to fix, and it’s ONE of the man things we need to correct if we are going to get MLB or any major pro-sports franchise in our city. So what’s your point? This should be one of the things you point out in your article of ‘steps Raleigh needs to take to make MLB happen.’ Either you are purposefully distracting from this conversation by insinuating that we think Raleigh should focus on nothing else but putting an MLB team here, or you simply do not understand the entire premise of this conversation.
-In response to your Vegas post above: It’s clear what he said in that article. The point being made was that you attempted to damage the credibility of this blogger for the fact that he had Vegas high on his list. The reason he does is bc Vegas has been mentioned by Manfred multiple times and Vegas has had an actual conversation with the Diamondbacks about moving the team.
Heck, even Buster Olney thinks Vegas is a player, when in a recent podcast he said “I do think they’re going to start look at expansion teams. I think you’re going to hear about Portland, North Carolina, Nashville, Montreal and Vegas.” Or is Olney not credible either?
Instead of speaking to that, you dive into the nuances of the data and question hypotheticals. Point is, you tried to discredit him by doing this and in turn you discredited yourself.
I’m delighted to be a champion for realistic thinking, sure. (I would argue that the folks arguing for more public transit in this region are the ones being realistic here, but that’s another story for another thread.) I don’t think there’s any conflict between being realistic and doing new and innovative things–in fact, I would argue that realistic thinking is an essential element in successful innovation. But that’s also maybe beyond the scope of the thread.
Buster Olney does good work. By the way, I would say without hesitation that the best writer out there on all things MLB expansion related is Maury Brown, who is a contributor to Forbes. If you’ve not already made his acquaintance I would–quite seriously and constructively–encourage you to reach out to him about this effort.
My comment was that Raleigh would be a way better candidate for an MLB team than Las Vegas. I stand behind that comment. You’re welcome to agree with that or disagree with that, but I’m sticking to my guns on that. I never said that Raleigh was more likely to get a team than Las Vegas is. (I would say they’re both pretty unlikely.)
I do want to use the Las Vegas situation to make a point that is extremely relevant to Raleigh specifically. The Diamondbacks do not appear to have any actual interest in moving to Las Vegas. On Jan. 4, Derrick Hall, the team’s CEO, sent Richard Derrick, the city manager of Henderson, an email with the subject line, “Have not forgotten you!” An email with that subject line does not lead me to believe that relocating to Las Vegas is anything the franchise is seriously pursuing. The team wants Arizona to pay to build them a new stadium so they can stay in Arizona forever, and they’re quite happy to use a subsidy offer from Nevada or wherever as leverage to help them get that done.
If tomorrow Stuart Sternberg says “If Tampa doesn’t build me a stadium, maybe I’m going to move the team to Raleigh,” that doesn’t mean he wants to move the team to Raleigh. It means he’s looking for leverage to get a stadium built in Florida. As this effort goes on, people in and around MLB will probably start throwing Raleigh’s name around with those other cities–not because they want to bring a team to Raleigh, but so that we can be somebody else’s leverage against their own city. I’m unenthusiastic about the prospect of Raleigh being somebody else’s leverage.
Having grown up in Asheville, it has pretty strong ties to Atlanta. Asheville-Atlanta is maybe an hour longer than Asheville-Charlotte, but Atlanta is quite a lot bigger so that explains part of it. Perhaps the other part is that Atlanta was the New Hotness of the 80s and 90s (Hotlanta, Capitol of the New South, Olympics, OutKast, Chipper Jones, World Series, and all that) and some of that mystique has faded since then, but regardless there were a lot of seemingly pretty die hard Braves fans in Asheville growing up and I have a hard time imagining that has changed much. Head further south/west toward Brevard, Franklin, etc. and those ties get stronger still.
Maury Brown was involved in the early 2000s MLB to Portland effort, and while I enjoy his writing and have nothing against him, he has vested-interest in Portland getting a franchise. So do note that when you read his takes on expansion to help shape your beliefs on the topic. And yes, we’ve already spoken to him.
Your Vegas comment was as you stated (with an added sarcastic remark about that ‘random dude’), but any attempt to say that it was not being used to discredit the blogger would be disingenuous. Yes, I too think Raleigh is a better market than Vegas, but scoffing at the USA Today writer for adding Vegas high on that list was simply the wrong take by you.
Yeah it’s possible that another franchise uses Raleigh as leverage for a new stadium. It’s also possible that in the next 8 years our market keeps on it’s projected path, houses a couple more Fortune 500 companies, and every investor out there starts knocking at Raleigh’s door. What’s your point?
Anyways, we can keep doing this all day. Let me just leave it at this. You have an open invitation to join us in taking action in doing all we possible can to make our city a contender in this process. That means using the baseball as a vehicle to talk about issues we need to face today in our city, with people that are not usually interested in having those conversation (transit, affordable housing, etc.) It also means setting up events to raise money for good causes, or going down to the Boys club and helping pick weeds so they can have a decent field. You are MORE than welcome to join us in any or all of these endeavors. Or you can just sit on this forum, continually explain to people why the odds are against us, and go to bed knowing no matter what happens, at least you won’t be let down.
Great find, thanks! Nice little chunk of change that gets shared among owners…nudge, nudge, potential owners. Also, where’s the “baseball is a dying sport” crowd?
@wmgadd@Loup20 I love the work you’ve put in to the MLB 919 board at Transfer Co! I have a suggestion: change the concept for the Raleigh Revenge to something pirate related due to NC’s history with Blackbeard and the Queen Anne’s Revenge. Blackbeard could be our mascot! I liked the Raleigh Oaks and one other I can’t remember.
Funny coincidence that you posted this today: I made my first ever trip to Transfer Food today and saw the board–very cool. I do wonder if the Raleigh Oaks is too reminiscent of “Oakland As”? Probably not.
Thanks @RaleighFollower and @ExSF. Another funny coincidence is that the display is actually coming down today. I’m heading up there now. They have a cool OUR STATE (the magazine) feature going on and they will be displaying it up there.
Any thoughts on how the proposed contraction of over 40 minor league babaseball will impact Raleigh’s chances of getting a team (major or minor league)?
MLB proposed the contraction last year, but there was strong pushback. Now with coronavirus it looks like minor league baseball will accept it.
I would LOVE a minor league team in Raleigh, but I’ve heard that Jim Goodmon got some sort of rule enacted to protect his investment in the Durham Bulls. I don’t know the details, but from what I’ve heard, it prohibits a team within x miles radius of Durham, which is why the Mudcats ended up in the very far eastern tip of Wake county. I think the original intent was to place the Mudcats in Raleigh.
Welcome Alex ! You are right about the mileage rule reason on why Raleigh does not have minor league baseball . If you have the time Google " The Atlantic League Of Professional Baseball " & check this league out . They can play in Raleigh . This is a AA Level , 23 year old league . Great to have You Alex .
Yeah I have to say @Loup20 I’m impressed and explains the whole movement trying to grease the wheels for it, with there business partnerships they’re actually trying to get businesses hooked @UncleJesse so when a potential investors come to Raleigh from wherever there’s automatic Corparate support. And last there trying to get the city involved that how other cities hit teams like Sacramento and St. Louis and Nashville there mayor’s went out there way for them to get MLS teams negotiated with whoever in the state of for then city to get land approved and tax dollars ready if that was in the stadium equation. The first thing the NIMBY mayor McFarland did was come out and say no automatically even with knowing that this area is pro-soccer ready and can support a second team. McFarland didn’t even want to support it, even when Malik at the time was saying it was privately funded. Now, yes it was on state property of course but you know I’m starting to think it wasn’t the state. Had the City and so-called pro-growth but really NIMBYs County Commissioners like John Burns actually worked with the state in purchasing the land from the state with intent to help Malik by leasing that new land to him instead bring conceed with the little NIMBY stuff like traffic, and construction, and taxes. Than this wouldn’t have happened and Raleigh would have been awarded an expansion team. See I think the state would’ve let it go or the city could’ve help Malik find new land or the city could’ve leased there own land but No. The City and County folded up to the state saying it’s more their issue than our, when they could’ve teamed up with Malik to make it happen. They sure fought for there lives with Dix Park why shouldn’t they’ve done that for this. I don’t know cause they were NIMBY for everything.
But the point for this movement MLB To Raleigh is to make sure none of that happens. They’re partnerships is to make sure that business automatically pledge there’s Corparate support if a Billionaire Investors want to put MLB in Raleigh, and that when he proposes a Stadium the Mayor (or anyone who’s on that council hopefully not NIMBY monsters) would be energized to help that potential billionaire investor get his stadium wherever it is and the leaders will know there time on office is in this and there fight there lives to get that stadium on the proposed spot. Furthermore the city and county citizens and leaders will support the process. And help when needed when the Billionaire says so. But this movement is to grease all that to get the city connected to the front office, and get a billionaire, the reason I mentioned Sacramento, St. Louis, Nashville even Charlotte because there mayors (in fact eveb Mayor Vi Lyles even wrote a letter to MLS welcoming Charlotte isn’t that automatic support or not) were so vocal they even had unused stadiums put aside for there bids and everything land, etc. So it could happen, and they got there teams. And this movement ensures all leaders in the area in office or future are already for it.
Hey Lou , I almost called you on this but I also wanted to share this with Will & all the other baseball site fans . If you Google Ballpark Digest , there is a 51+ minute video , " Jesse Goldberg-Strassler , Kevin Reinhard , Mick Gillispie , Broadcaster Chat May 26 . " All three talk baseball & close to the end they mention MLB expansion cities Charlotte , Portland , Nashville , Montreal , Las Vegas . Kevin is the publisher of Ballpark Digest & Jesse , Mick are broadcasters for minor league ball .
Thanks Dwight. Those cities they mention are the list that has been out there for a while and it’s based on a single interview Manfred did a few years ago. We have a full article about that here and how we feel Raleigh fits into that group
Also, if you are wondering how Raleigh fits in from a data perspective, here is a breakdown:
Thanks again for always keeping me updated with your findings!
Jesse is an old friend and former radio broadcast partner of mine from college (Ithaca College Class of 2004), and he is an awesome dude and extremely knowledgeable about baseball. He was actually the minor league baseball broadcaster of the year last year and the author of an excellent book called The Baseball Thesaurus that I would highly recommend to any baseball fan. I’ll have to check out the video some time and hear what all they had to say.
Thanks David for giving me this information . You will enjoy the video . I think that I am right on this , Jesse broadcasted Independent Baseball in 2019 & quite a few years before 2019 .