I mean…it was a solid concept IMO. Replace surface parking lots, hideous single-story brick government buildings, and the asbesthos playstation building with a downtown stadium and new government offices? Public-private seems like a hard sell, but that one wasn’t a bad proposal.
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No but know the state, with their Tom Foolery. They can’t even decide time it is without fighting. If I were Steve I’d give them a 3 month interval, then look at other sights. I wasn’t happy with his leadership and hunger. He had the right idea he was just too patient I myself I’m not patient when it comes to financies. He should’ve moved on to the current spot. The point I’m making is he should’ve been aggressive and said to the state if you don’t want anything fuck you I’ll go somewhere else I’m not saying actually say that but he should’ve been hey I’m not wasting anytime.
Although I don’t know you personally, I would lean more towards the side of Malik’s financial decision making over the last couple decades. And I’m only using his current net income for reference.
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He apparently was cutting Tom Dundon he wanted some MLS action because the league wanted a billionaire involved with the Bid. He had it then when Tepper announced his bid he got weak and gave up. Then sugar coded it with oh I think NC can have 2 MLS team which ima be honest I highly doubt is gonna happen. Now yes there still too 5 there still not the big enough right now to overcome baseball im sure when the NFL was small they would’ve not minded two team being 3 hours apart like Green Bay or Chicago. Shit they’re the Crew and the FC Cinniati their distance between them is shorter than ours. I’m sure he can put data about Raleigh attendance in MLS games at BoA. And he can tell we really are different market, shoot Tampa apparently is bidding again.
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#1 doesn’t deal with the issue of paying for the stadium. The only reason Stuart Sternberg wants to move the Rays out of Tampa Bay is that he can’t find anyone there who wants to pay to build a stadium for him. If he wanted to pay for his own stadium, he could just stay in Tampa and do that, so there’d be zero reason for him to move.
#2 might be true, but even if the ownership group foots some of the bill, you’re still looking at several $100M of public subsidies, at least.
#3 and #4 are just admitting that you’d like to take the money away from public schools, public safety, etc. The state legislature isn’t legalizing sports betting out of a respect for personal freedom. Advocates were able to wrangle the votes to do it because it will generate more tax revenue to fund the state budget. If you give that money away to a billionaire, you can’t spend it on schools or anything else. (And the entirety of the state’s revenue for sports gambling is projected to be only around $55 million a year by 2028, and that’s all state money, so good luck getting the state legislature to earmark it for a project in Raleigh.) The hospitality tax is local, but we could just raise the hospitality tax tomorrow and spend the money on police or parks or anything else instead of a stadium.
#5 just restates the items above, so that leaves us with #6, which correctly states the proposition here: We just raise general taxes. And, yes, I totally agree that neither Raleigh nor any other city is getting an MLB team with giving away hundreds of millions of dollars in public money to subsidize a for-profit business that would be owed by some of the richest people in the world.
So, yes, that’s a hard no for me. Obviously I have no animus against baseball and am in fact a huge baseball fan, but I don’t think the price of an MLB franchise is one worth paying even if the option were ever on the table, which it may not be any time soon. And I don’t think that any longtime readers of this thread or the sports thread or the DT South thread would think that I’ve ever beat around the bush on this point or suffer from an inability to come out and say things.
But, again, I think we’re conflating three different things here. Would MLB in the Triangle be possible in the near-ish future? Yes, probably. Is it particularly likely? No. Is it a good idea? Not given the costs that would go with it, no.
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Government is not so efficient that all their money goes to schools and safety. Whether sports stadiums add value (not just economically, but socially, culturally, intrinsically, what have you) is an open question, but don’t start off the conversation with “what about the kids”?
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You should have just said you were a ‘hard no’ from day one.
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I know don’t you just hate people beating around the bush.
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Hey Lou, If a AAA City did advance to MLB , would You and Your Group consider bringing their AAA Team to Raleigh?
Not sure what you’re asking, Dwight. I don’t think the Bulls turning pro is a real option for a bunch of reasons , but if MLB expansion comes and goes without Raleigh getting a team then sure, we would advocate for any type of baseball to come.
But MLB Raleigh will stay MLB focused until expansion is settled.
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Thanks Lou! You answered my question. I should have been more detailed on this. Sorry about this Lou. What I meant is Durham still staying AAA but if a Charlotte, Nashville, Indianapolis, etc. went MLB, then bringing in a AAA Team from them to be in The International League. What a Raleigh/Durham rivalry Lou!
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Under the former rules (and I believe the new rules) Durham would be able to block any AAA or lower league from coming to Raleigh.
As for International League, I’m honestly not sure what their business relationship is with MLB/MILB (which these days is basically one entity). Could MLB/MILB block an international league team infringing on their territory by rule? Or no?
Even if the answer is no, you’d still have an uphill battle making this happen. All I’ll say is that if Goodmon (Bulls/WRAL owner) wanted to get involved in stopping something like that, I believe he could. The public interest and the money involved just wouldn’t be big enough to counter any moves he could decide to make. That’s just my opinion on why, at this stage, International League just isn’t a viable option.
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100% chance that by the time that MLB would be able to play its first game at a new Raleigh field the Triangle would be a larger market than Cincinnati, and quickly closing the gap on both greater Pittsburgh and Kansas City. The Triangle is already larger than Milwaukee. Both Pittsburgh and Milwaukee are also shrinking markets while both Cincinnati and Kansas City are growing anemically.
The Triangle could be the largest market among all in the next 10 years. I would think that MLB would want to think long term.
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We’re putting together updated numbers, and as I said previously, we have professional resources helping with it this time. We’ve seen some very initial projection numbers that range out to the 2035 time frame, and let me just say that they look VERY good for NC and for the Triangle in particular.
Good enough that there is a scenario where the Triangle isn’t just in range of other small market MLB cities, but that would put us on the cusp, if not in competition with MID-market MLB cities.
These numbers will be made public sometime in June or July.
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This should be a no-brainer for the MLB. One of the fastest-growing states in the country with multiple strong-growth metros within day trip distance, and no widespread existing MLB fanbase due to the nearest existing teams being 4-5 hrs away. I do think SLC is a strong contender, as well as Charlotte and Nashville (though both of those feel rather unlikely due to a number of other circumstances).
I wonder if Raleigh, and the Triangle as a whole, suffers from the sort of “Austin effect” where a strong allegiance to a legacy college team(s) hampers the perception that residents will have time and resources to also support professional sports teams. It wasn’t very long ago that Austin and Raleigh seemed to be arguably in the same tier, with Charlotte firmly on the next tier, but now it feels like Raleigh is breaking into the same tier as Charlotte, and in the same time frame most would agree that Austin has managed to jump almost all the way into a tier above Charlotte. Yet you don’t really hear Austin mentioned much as a legitimate spot for expansion/relocation of professional sports teams.
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Austin is hurt by UT sports, its late growth, and perhaps most importantly being less than 3 hours to two top 10 metros. At the point the non-NBA leagues decide Texas can support more teams, there will be a land rush to get into Austin.
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just curious…aside from the super metros and , i assume cities with 7 to 9k ppl per sqmi are all the stadiums in cities less than that(?) that essentially car centric? would it be undesirable if raleigh had a more car centric stadium or turn it down if it isnt?
People have expressed desire in SAT/AUS but both the Cowboys and Texans pretty much vetoed it. I can imagine it would be the same in every other league.
Looks like they’re gonna knock down the Tropicana on the strip for the new A’s stadium.
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Steve Malik, John Kane could propose a stadium to lure the Brewers here.
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