I wonder if there’s a silver lining to the Rays seemingly resolving their ownership issue. Manfred likely wanted to have all existing franchise ownership and stadium planning firmed up before turning toward expansion. This would be a step in that direction.
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This is the question. Public records show a meeting between the new owner and the mayor of Tampa. So there may have been a lot of back-channelling leading up to this. You don’t invest $1.7 Billion on a team that has no home (stadium).
Now again, the Mayor is one thing, but getting the city and county to vote yes is another, and coupling the stadium with a mixed-use entertainment district is a whole different bag of worms
So this is a long way from over, I assume. But I also assume that this group who bought the team has a plan A, plan B and plan C. We’ll have to let things play out to see what those are.
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In all likelihood, this means that the Rays future will be settled somewhat soon-ish, although the A’s drama still shows no signs of nearing an end. Manfred has said repeatedly that MLB would very much like to keep the Rays in the Tampa Bay market, because it’s actually a fantastic market for MLB that has been held back for its whole existence by being stuck in an outdated stadium in a terrible location. The Athletic reported back in March that Manfred and several owners were pressuring Sternberg to sell the Rays because he had become an impediment to keeping the team there. Selling the team to a local group should help get MLB the outcome it always wanted, which is the Rays staying in Tampa Bay.
More than six years after this thread was started, we still don’t have any prospect of a date when MLB might even announce when it might begin to solicit expansion bids, but at least we’re one step closer to removing one impediment to that happening, so it’s not like we’ve just been spinning our wheels here for the last six-plus years!
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I don’t really understand your anti-MLB Raleigh shtick. Have we not heard anything new? Yes. Do I expect Dundon and company to tell us everything they’re doing? No.
No news doesn’t mean nothing is happening. There’s been progress in 6 years whether you want to admit it. Dundon wasn’t even on the radar when this topic was created.
And dragging the guys running the MLB Raleigh group is just lame. They’re a grassroots organization doing the best for their community and trying to make their dream happen. It’s not their fault they’re not billionaires that can buy the Rays and move them here.
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When you go to law school they steal your ability to find true joy in life, and then you have to fill that void by trying to be right and score points. At least that’s why I am the way I am. It’s pretty bleak, cut David some slack
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This is so true about law school, but I have an 8-year-old daughter and a 3-year-old son who are both amazing, so truly I tell you, my life is bursting at the seams with joy. I’ve got joy that seeps across my soul, settles into any cracks it finds along the way and fills all the hard-to-joy places. Unfortunately I’ve not yet been able to get either one of them fired up about urbanism, but the little one has gotten hugely into the Paw Patrol spin-off Rubble & Crew, where Builder Cove has some heroically permissive zoning and by-right development regulations, so I’m hoping to use that as an entryway into the virtues of YIMBYism. But until then, I pretty much just have this thread.
I’ve talked about this so much that I sometimes get entirely fair complaints about dead horses, but since you specifically asked … just in June alone, Missouri voted to cover up to 50% of the cost of a new Royals stadium that is expected to cost $1 billion to $2 billion, Oregon authorized $800 million in bonds to help fund an MLB stadium in Portland, and Arizona is about to give $500 million to the Diamondbacks for stadium upgrades. And that’s just this month! Meanwhile, St. Petersburg and Pinellas County offered over $1 billion to keep the Rays in town. I’m not against MLB in Raleigh, I’m against giving hundreds of millions in taxpayer dollars to a billionaire so he can build a stadium and collect all the profits from it. (Yes, I’ve talked about this a lot. But you asked!)
The MLB to Raleigh guys don’t operate in some criticism-free safe space. Like Mike Walden alluded to in his WRAL article above, they’ve found time to propose uniforms and color schemes for at least nine different possible names. They’ve found time to generate incredibly detailed stadium proposals, all of which were fantastically, wildly impossible, but they were extremely detailed fantasies. But when you even raise the issue of how taxpayers would be expected to fund what could easily be close to $1 billion in stadium subsidies or whether that money might be put to better uses, suddenly it’s “Whoa, whoa, whoa, let’s not get ahead of ourselves here! This is all still very early, and we’ve got lots of time before we need to even start thinking about anything like that!” It’s a debate they very, very clearly do not want to have even though it absolutely has to happen before any effort can move forward. But, hey, look at these jerseys and how pretty they look.
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I get that. But how do you have that debate when there’s not even a cost estimate or a proposal or some plan or announcement to react to?
Person A: I think it should be 60-40 split.
Person B: I think it should be 80-20 split.
Person C: I think it should be 100% private funded.
Person D: I think it should be 100% public funded.
Moderator: ok cool cool cool. guess we’ll just wait now. Debate finished.
Oh and of course Person C ‘wins’ this debate. Maybe that’s why you want to have it?
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Yes, it’s fair that it’s tougher to have the debate when this is still all very much in the abstract. But based on what other cities/states are spending, we can come up with a reasonable idea of what kind of range we’re talking about. It’s hard to imagine that the ask would be anything less than $500 million, whereas $1 billion is the sort of totemic figure that even supportive politicians will try to stay under if they can. Okay, that’s still a big range, but at least that gives you some idea.
Some cities and states are already having this debate. As noted, Oregon is already offering up $800 million for a team that doesn’t exist. On the other end of the spectrum, in 2006 Seattle voters overwhelmingly approved Initiative 91, which required the city to get fair-market return on any investments in sports stadiums, and as a result the recent renovations of the city’s arena were privately financed. (And, yes, I’m obviously Person C in this debate, and I think rules like this are great and we should have them.)
And now that Tom Dundon is the putative majority owner for any team in North Carolina, he can be put on the spot about this. If he’s working to put together a bid, I’m sure he already has some ideas about how much a stadium would cost, and how much he’s willing to contribute and how much he expects the government to subsidize. It would be perfectly reasonable for him to start going on the record about it now rather than try to jam the General Assembly at the last minute once the bidding process starts and argue that we need to hurry up and get something passed quickly so we don’t lose out on a team and short-circuit any debate on whether it’s a good idea in the first place.
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I think in today’s economic / political climate, it will be hard to sell for any kind of tax increase to Raleigh / wake county residents to give $$$ to a billionaire for a sports stadium. People’s finances are already under strain from the post-pandemic inflation, skyrocketing housing costs, and the Trump Tariffs.
As someone not into baseball, I am not sure I would be voting in favor of that, if it comes down to a voter referendum.
I could see it if the current tourism tax / fund can be applied to it. Or if the city / county negotiate some sort of revenue sharing deal with the team if the taxpayers put up the money.
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Carolina Copperheads with copper and green would be cool.
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Sharing is Caring :
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I’ve said this before, my dream location for a MLB stadium is the central prison property. Expensive project but it’d create limitless opportunities to develop a residential and entertainment district. the addition of a pedestrian bridges/route from RUS(or an additional rail stop) would enhance the experience. relocate central prison to another part of the state that could use an economic boost…Butner NC comes to mind.
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Would love to see that too. An afternoon spent at Dorthea Dix, ending with a night out at the baseball game sounds awesome.
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Hey guys.
If you’ve got nothing going on Monday night, we’re partnering with the Hurricanes to do an MLB Home Run Derby watch party at ‘The Local’ (Former Backyard Bistro near Lenovo Center)
Some of the actual ownership group will be out there as Joe and Joe (OG Podcast) will be interviewing them on a live show about the work going into bringing MLB here.
Also launching a vintage cap that reimagines the Canes as a 1930s baseball club. Only have about 300 of these, and only available at the event.
If you’re into the idea of MLB in Raleigh this woud be a good opportunity to come out and show your support as a lot of actual stakeholders and leaders will be at this thing.
Would love to see you out there. I’ll be at the table if anyone wants to come say hey.
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Would LOVE one of these hats but unfortunately not going to be able to make the trip up to the event. Have fun and good luck, guys!
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Today’s Triangle Business Journal has an article on Raleigh MLB Project. Can anyone read this article? Thanks!
Well, here is the title to the article which I cant say that I care for. But the title is misleading once I started reading the article. I will post the highlights shortly.
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Here is an AI summary of the article from TBJ: Raleigh’s pursuit of an MLB team faces significant challenges, particularly with competition from Nashville, which recently secured a deal with a real estate developer. The city lacks a stadium plan and has few major companies, making corporate sponsorships crucial for ticket sales during the 81 home games each season. While Tom Dundon, who expressed interest in bringing a franchise to North Carolina, prefers Raleigh, he acknowledges that a billionaire owner and a stadium deal are essential for success. Nashville’s efforts are more advanced, as they have engaged a developer for a potential stadium project despite concerns over public funding. Experts suggest that Raleigh must demonstrate a compelling case for the MLB to divert its attention from Nashville, emphasizing the importance of community investment in sports.
It’s kind of a weirdly written article. The headline doesn’t seem to match the body, like you mentioned. But also the main push is that Nashville is way ahead of Raleigh when the only thing they’ve done is partner with a real estate group. They still don’t have an ownership group! That’s way bigger of a deal.
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It is a long shot bid
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