Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) in Raleigh

keita · June 11, 2021, 9:43pm

The City Council meeting agenda for next Tuesday is out, and it includes a potential vote on starting condemning property for the New Bern BRT. The agenda entry also includes an engineer’s report that summarizes how HNTB did their work, as well as draft project maps.

What does that mean? We finally get to see what the exact road and station layouts look like for the New Bern BRT!

Starting downtown (which we’ve already seen previews of)…

Around the Edenton/Poole split, where DTR-bound buses will need to do an awkward lane change to get onto Edenton. (if you look at early project documents, though, this could’ve been much worse. …plus BRTs will also get traffic signal priority, anyways):

Raleigh Blvd. (as an example of stations on the median of New Bern Av.):

The engineer’s report also included a quick 3D render of the same intersection, looking south (and it includes what a BRT bus’ livery could look like)!

Back to maps, here’s the north of WakeMed, where the median-running busway ends and BRT starts running in mixed traffic:

New Hope Rd. terminal, near the old DMV headquarters. I assume the small platform on the right is for dropoff only, and the bigger one that’s actually on New Hope Rd. is where you can board BRTs.

Condemnation for small parts of property and easement rights are scheduled to be done by this November (for places involving public utility easements) and next March (all other property types). No homes or businesses are expected to be displaced by this project, and this project also includes new crosswalks and sidewalks to make the corridor safer for pedestrians.

There’s also updates planned for the BRT’s systemwide design and branding, but nothing of note has been uploaded yet.

Christopher · June 15, 2021, 1:42pm

The New Bern BRT line was just awarded a $5.4m allocation of American Rescue Plan funding, which I believe goes toward the local match.

Raleigh, NC: New Bern Avenue Bus Rapid Transit Project

The Wake Bus Rapid Transit New Bern Avenue Project will receive a $5.4 million allocation of American Rescue Plan funding for the New Bern Avenue BRT Project, a 5.1-mile BRT line that will improve access and mobility along the New Bern Avenue corridor, connecting the Raleigh central business district and communities eastward to North New Hope Road.

keita · June 15, 2021, 2:23pm

Crazy thought: since GoRaleigh already has electric bus infrastructure, could they use the $5.4M that’s now freed up and make BRT vehicles electric, too?

ADUsSomeday · June 15, 2021, 3:16pm

This is a smaller line item, but I think we should use ~ $150,000 of it to give each home owner directly on new Bern ~$3,000 in landscaping (mostly trees and screening plants).
The more I get into following and public comment the more I am learning that the angst on losing trees and the sidewalk taking land that people felt like was theirs is the number one complaint coming from the corridor.

Seems like a smaller thing, but I think it would really calm a lot of the potential detractors down.

Christopher · June 15, 2021, 3:30pm

I sure hope they plant a lot of trees along this corridor to make up for losing the median between Longview and WakeMed!

Jacobirving1 · June 15, 2021, 3:34pm

I’ve said this so many times on this website and my supervisor for my previous internship with the city agreed with me.

ADUsSomeday · June 15, 2021, 3:36pm

I wanted to get some ideas on two things I have been hearing about the New Bern BRT that I am still forming my own thoughts on. I am not looking for complaints on these opinions/concerns more just constructive ideas about them.

#1. There has been a concern I have heard from the Longview area around parking from people who would want to use the BRT. This caught be by surprise because I am so used to people saying that we need parking because there is not good enough transit yet. So the concern about good transit creating a lot of parking did not occur to me. The concern is that if there is a stop Lord Berkley or Clarendon and New Bern, would people park on those streets to access the stop? I am becoming a fan of adding handicapped parking to places like this because access for people who need that is important and takes away a lot of the concern. But, in other BRT’s do people drive to stops “in the middle” of the line to park? Do people in the neighborhoods around those stops drive to the stop? Is that a thing there is evidence for or against? I could see parking at ends of the line at park and rides (especially out of town). Anyone have good data on this type of situation?

#2. I am hearing an interesting feedback of not understanding why there needs to be the median lane between wakemed and downtown because there is generally not a traffic problem there. The place where traffic is thought to be bad is from wake med out through 440, and there is not going to be a dedicated lane there.

I would personally not be upset if we just made the stretch between Raleigh blvd and wake med stay 2 lanes and just take one for BRT only, but I am thinking that the NCDOT would not let that happen. I am also guessing NCDOT are a blocker from having the dedicated lane out to New Hope? What is the story there? Second, this line of thinking def leads to "why is the city doing this project? So, what are the big “Yes the BRT on new Bern will really make a difference” arguments? I like it most as part of a network and laying the ground work for further expansion. It did seem like people really saw the value of a bus only lane that went past 440, but not being able to do it there in the first go around takes away a lot of that. It is not super clear to me if there is a plan to extend the bus only lane or what that would look like.

Jacobirving1 · June 15, 2021, 3:38pm

The city is not converting buses or buying new electric vehicles due to their plans to use processed waste to power the buses in the future. This plan is already in the first phase of trials… I believe. @Christopher Do you know more about this?

keita · June 15, 2021, 3:41pm

I never said anything about converting existing buses. I was talking about changing the types of new buses that will be ordered in the future.

ADUsSomeday · June 15, 2021, 3:43pm

The city already runs lot of Compressed Natural Gas busses, which run off byproducts of the waist management system. They are very quiet and run clean, so you get the same environmental advantages as Electric.

They have two big advantages though.

Range: you can drive them a lot further than the electric busses, which need charging stations set up on the routes to keep charged
Cost: The CNG busses are cheaper to buy by around 40% and they don’t need to expensive to install charging infrastructure.

People just don’t seem to notice the CNG buses. I am starting to think we need to change all buses over to CNG or somehow every will see the one or two diesel busses if those are left on the road and want electric

Jacobirving1 · June 15, 2021, 3:43pm

To add, electric vehicles are not as environmentally friendly as they may seem. The majority of electricity used to power said vehicles are coming from coal power plants and other nonrenewables. There are cases where some charging stations are powered by solar panels but not many. The best option is to use processed waste which has combustion that’s not as harmful to the environment.

Jacobirving1 · June 15, 2021, 3:48pm

I think the plan is to have all of the buses be CNGs by 2030? It’s a part of the sustainability plan. I’m not sure if there is a plan to increase the number of electric buses. @keita https://www.instagram.com/tv/COvR9oKHL6V/?utm_medium=copy_link

atl_transplant · June 15, 2021, 3:53pm

If we’re wanting people to actually use this to commute we’re going to need to build some park and rides. I think one near the 440 interchange and one at New Hope would suffice. I don’t think many people would park and ride at locations other that. At least not enough to make a huge area impact. As for Longview itself, I can’t see that many park and riders but maybe a small lot will be needed?

I personally think they really did this backwards. There’s not much volume from Downtown to around the Hospital which is where they have the dedicated lanes. From the Hospital to to New Hope there’s more traffic and more signals which to me was the area they really should have a dedicated guideway. But past 440, the road is US 64 BUS which is controlled by NCDOT and yea, they probably didn’t want to lose a lane. But this stretch of road is very overdesigned because it used to carry all the vehicles that now use I-87 and could survive losing a lane.

Hopefully the line is successful and eventually can be reworked to a full dedicated guideway as well as extended out to Knightdale.

orulz · June 15, 2021, 5:20pm

I think, even though there isn’t a big traffic problem between WakeMed and the downtown today, there might be more of one in the future, as downtown and the eastern suburbs grow. Put the bus lanes in while they still can, in other words.

But I agree, east of WakeMed is the traffic problem.

I have heard the main reason the dedicated lanes weren’t extended is because it would require widening the bridges over the Beltline and Crabtree Creek. This is certainly possible, but it will be expensive. They will revisit it when these bridges are up for reconstruction.

I think the source for this info was one of the GoRaleigh staff at a public meeting they held at the convention center a couple years ago.

wanderer · June 15, 2021, 8:16pm

Timeline 25:10
Timeline 26:50 shows the Fleet Conversion projections
“By late July” about 45% of the fleet will be CNG.

28:53 - Car emits about 4.6 metric tons of CO2 every year @22MPG/11,500 miles
29:32 - GoRaleigh 40CNG buses released a total of 2.2 tons of CO2 “from the first day they started driving on the road.”

The reduced emissions that were released from the buses are amazing.

30:58 Discussion about the Electric Bus Project. Duke Energy is proving $200k grant towards electric charging infrastructure.
31:36 GoRaleigh now has 2- 40’ buses and 3- 35’ electric buses

Straggler · June 15, 2021, 8:32pm

That is an interesting tidbit. I think one of the main environmental drawbacks of CNG is the methane leakage at extraction. I believe unburned methane is ~100x worse than CO2 in trapping greenhouse gases. Someone correct me if I’m wrong. Even if my stats are right, I don’t know how to compare the two. I would still think CNG would be better, but more renewable energy sources would be nice.

orulz · June 15, 2021, 8:53pm

Methane is also shorter lived in the atmosphere - by about two orders of magnitude. It lasts around ~10 years, while CO2 lasts for ~1000 years. So while methane has a larger impact per ton, and it does indeed affect the climate, it doesn’t accumulate in quite the same way that CO2 does (Which is what makes CO2 such a problem)

Kevin · June 15, 2021, 10:29pm

The overwhelming majority of transit buses throughout the country run on CNG now. NC is behind the curve on this, big time.

keita · June 16, 2021, 4:23pm

Oh by the way, you can see that presentation now!

Click here for the design criteria and overarching ideas.

From the survey city planners released last Spring, this is what people say they preferred for station designs:

As for artwork integration, people also showed a preference for pieces that also serve practical purposes (e.g. seats, lighting, signs to help you navigate). That portion of the survey results will also be incorporated into standard ways for how art will become a part of each BRT station.

The slide deck included these renders of New Bern line stations. The specific styling of the Go+ logo, the bus livery etc. are NOT YET FINAL.

If you thought “the stations could use a bit more color”, remember that this is just the standard layout of BRT stations. Public artwork is also expected to become a part of each station (see that hidden text above for details), which should make stations look more lively.

The City Manager’s updates also included a new slide deck that wasn’t there before, with more engineering details as well as a preview of the WakeMed area:

Also, for the New Bern Av. line, station area planning efforts are also looking into how to better redirect and refocus engineering and rezoning efforts to benefit nearby residents, keep housing affordability from going off the rails etc. They mentioned this as their game plan and next steps for the coming months:

pierretong · June 17, 2021, 1:01pm

Working on a development project along Atlantic Avenue ITB and the city is requiring a transit shelter adjacent to the site for future transit - take that for whatever it’s worth haha