Update: no decision today but GoTriangle did confirm that they’re trying to make a decision by June 30th.
However, they did go over the survey results and had some additional discussion about the feasibility report. Nothing crazy, but I took some notes if anyone is interested.
Public Engagement Overview
Goal all along was to get opinions from every segment of the community. Challenging but fun, per GoTriangle staff.
Preference of GoTriangle is to re-name the project to “regional rail,” as it is intended for use by all segments of the community, not just work commuters.
Engagement: 20 in-person events and 6,034 survey participants
Significant news coverage; most news coverage had a neutral sentiment (70%+), followed by mostly negative, then positive, coverage
53% survey participation from Wake, 15% from Durham, remainder spread amongst other nearby counties
Public Engagement Survey Responses
Do you support or oppose the first phase of construction beginning with the Central portion of the corridor: 70% strongly support, 15% somewhat support, 15% oppose/other
Do you support/oppose the first phase of construction beginning with the Eastern portion? 45% strongly support.
Do you support or oppose the continued planning of commuter rail? 73% Strongly support, 10% somewhat support, 17% oppose/other
Do you currently take the bus in any of the GTCR service areas? 18% yes, 82% no. About 2% of regional population uses public transportation.
Top concerns from 2023 survey: connection to the airport, accessibility, project cost and timeline
Public Engagement Survey Discussion
A commissioner (? or board member) is concerned that most of the survey respondants had a household income of $125K or more, thus not providing a representative view of the region.
Durham Mayor O’Neal mensions that a significant number of black church-goers in Durham were missed by the survey due to in-person distribution methods. Offers suggestions to capture a larger portion of the black population in Durham.
Mayor O’Neal was curious about a survey question that asks whether the Western part of the corridor should be implemented first. GoTriangle staff responds that the question was not a part of the survey because it was determined that starting with the Western segment would not be financially feasible.
Feasibility Study Discussion
Study also looked at Greater Triangle Region, e.g., Mebane/Hillsborough - Selma
Eastern segment (Auburn to RUS) would be smallest, cheapest segment to implement first, but lowest ridership
RUS - RTP would also be feasible, though a little more expensive
To do both (Auburn - RTP) would be contingent on funding availability. Would exceed cost that can be supported by 10 year transit revenues, thus would require additional funding.
The cost of the project is really being driven by the cost of track and track-related infrastructure
Station locations, design elements, associated ridership estimation will be refined throughout project development and engineering
Ellis Rd. vs. RTP as terminus of Central Option: ridership is very similar for each, just as Clayton vs. Auburn is similar.
GoTriangle must put emphasis on land use planning, affordable housing, first/last-mile connections, etc. to be more competitive for FTA funding in the future. Local government partners must focus on this.
However, other federal funding is available besides the New Starts Program. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law was passed after the instantiation of the GTCR study. Could not fund all $3B, but for upgrades that benefit other entities of interest to the FTA (e.g., double tracking & Amtrak), additional funds could be secured. Low interest loans with long payback periods also available for project such as this.
Mayor Baldwin says the FTA strongly encouraged them to investigate the loan program. Austin, TX supposedly secured $12B (!) from such a program. Also heard from the FTA that continuing to pursue BRT is very important to keep building ridership. Wants to continue to build relationship with FTA.
Mayor O’Neal states she is struggling with how Durham fits into the plan. Has a hard time with the concept of “regionalism” when Durham is not being included at all in the near future. Recognizes the reasons for that (funding, etc.) but cannot support anything that has no plan, at least, for the Durham portion. GoTriangle responds: Durham County portion is estimated to cost at least $1.6B. The most significant design challenge is the NS rail yard in East Durham. The rail yard cannot be relocated at this time. GoTriangle is working with county staff and MPOs so that “it’s not 10 years before we’re just starting to think about Durham.” Working to position necessary infrastructure upgrades as individual projects.
MAB feels empathy for Durham b/c many investments have been focused in Wake County. She has heard in the past that the staff in Durham/Durham County is opposed to GTCR, has stated they need buses instead. MAB suggests to Mayor O’Neal and Durham commissioners (who are supportive of the rail project) that they direct staff – with a sense of urgency – to get on the same page. This project, in the view of the feds, has to be about the metro area. O’Neal suggests some of these comments may have actually been directed at the failed DOLRT project, not necessarily the regional rail project.
Mayor O’Neal wants something tangible in Durham, aside from a document, to show people that this project is moving along there.
A GoTriangle board member is curious if there is a general consensus among staff that this project will not happen. Another member says that Durham staff says, on a regular basis, that they prefer to focus on bus service. Attendees, incl. Mayor O’Neal, generally agree that MAB did not mean anything negative towards the staff, but rather, everyone needs to get on the same page. Still maybe some fatigue from failed DOLRT. From Durham’s vantage point, track record with GoTriangle has not been great so it is a tender area. Whatever we do, it has to have a tangible impact for Durham taxpayers who have already been burned. Again emphasises that they just need something; for example, could be a further expansion of bus system while track work is being done in the meantime.
Possible Use of NC-147 Corridor
Use of NC-147 for dedicated commuter rail tracks in Durham will not be faster to implement or cost less than investment in in the existing [NCRR] corridor
How and whether to move forward: Decision will be made by June 30th, the end of the fiscal year.
And it won’t be unless Norfolk Southern is financially incentivized to do it, either by governing bodies or by external factors. NS is generally not known for being cooperative.
Ellis Road is intended to be a park-and-ride. It’s not ideal, but it’s not nothing either. Put a bus bay and a pick-up zone for rideshare/microtransit between the platform and the parking lot, then run regular bus service to downtown. That holds you over at a reasonable price until you come up with the funding for an extension. I get Durham’s frustration, but GoTriangle’s hands are kind of tied on this one unless the county wants to up their transit tax.
Heck, there’s even a way to do this without adding buses/drivers: follow what GoRaleigh is doing with some of their routes and split the GoDurham 2 into two services (one between Ellis Rd and Downtown, the other between Ellis Rd and Brier Creek). If a one-seat ride to Brier Creek is a must, add an express service that runs along US-70. Even if all three of these theoretical routes ran on ten-minute headways, it’d still be way cheaper than including Downtown Durham in the first phase of this effort.
GoTriangle has made plenty of mistakes in the past, but I don’t think phasing this project is one of them. I know Durham feels like they’re getting shafted here, but this is just the nature of the beast when it comes to North American infrastructure projects. Until this country figures out how to get transit cost overruns under control, we’re going to have to make some tough compromises.
Good points all around. And yeah, I didn’t know about the NC-147 consideration either. It was a slide they had up just for a few minutes in the beginning of the meeting but didn’t really discuss it much after the fact.
Right, so the less we have to deal with downtown Durham and Norfolk Southern, the better. I think Raleigh-Cary-RTP is a slam dunk even with some of its inevitable challenges. It has the potential to be a wildly popular service that ends up being really attractive to neighboring municipalities, and I’m thoroughly convinced that Durham County, Orange County, and Johnston County will all want in and will find the money to make it happen once a service like that is up and running.
It’s just a shame. Durham is really blossoming and doing a lot of the right things. I’m sure they felt that they were getting ahead of the curve with that project (they started implementing local taxes for light rail in 2011). Now it feels like they’re getting left behind.
The things that prevented Durham from getting light rail still appear to not have been completely resolved. I’m just hoping that we don’t have any unseen barriers or obstacles for Raleigh - Cary - RTP.
Who knows what could change between now and then, but I got good vibes from this meeting. I would place my bets on them moving forward with the project.
Raleigh-Cary-RTP is already a good start, Durham won’t miss out on much it give them time to really plan them out and when demand comes from Gardner same thing. Any update on the Fayetteville to Raleigh line?
That’s actually a really good idea. If you’re only doing like two or three at peak periods, that minimizes the infrastructure upgrades that would need to occur. Same platform that already exists, just stick a ticket machine on there and coordinate the schedule around Amtrak and NS.
Additionally, they could work out a deal with Amtrak where commuter rail tickets between Durham, Cary, and Raleigh are honored on Amtrak trains, similar to what CTrail does on the Hartford Line. NCDOT is supposedly adding another Piedmont round trip this summer and will likely add at least one or two in the coming years, so Amtrak will already be offering at least five or six round trips between Raleigh and Durham by the time this project is in operation.
That’s an excellent idea and would give Mayor O’Neal her “something” for Durham while the infrastructure upgrades roll along. Definitely going to suggest that on any additional feedback opportunities we have.
EDIT: He had attended a meeting of combined MPOs (Metropolitan Planning Organizations) from Durham, Chapel Hill, Carrboro, and the Capital Area as part of a subcommittee on Commuter Rail
A loan consultant presented funding options to do phase 1 of commuter rail without federal funding since no federal funding was available. According to research, it would cost $1.6 billion to go from Garner to a little past RTP. The consultants recommended RRIF (Railroad Rehabilitation and Improvement Financing). The group instead decided to focus on BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) since federal funding was available for that option. In addition, while BRT is being established, infrastructure on rail lines, such as grade separated crossings, could occur. These infrastructure projects could also receive federal funding. This was a big pivot from what the committee was established for but is probably the best use of resources and funding and will accomplish a goal of providing transit options.
Not really exactly. NC 540 is funded by a Transportation Infrastructure Finance and Innovation Act loan and also by toll revenue bonds. These have to be paid back essentially by the tolls paid by the users of this highway.
Who is the “group” the mayor is referencing – the folks from the MPOs at that meeting? The subcomittee itself? And who ultimately makes the decision on whether to proceed?
Should hear from GoTriangle board of trustees soon on what is decided. June 30th was their deadline IIRC.
The full post (there’s an important sentence and heading that the quote cut out) mentions that this was from an MPO Executive Board Commuter Rail Subcommittee Meeting that had members of both the DCHCMPO and CAMPO (i.e. transportation planners from both the eastern and western Triangle region).
GoTriangle has the power to make the final call about this rail planning project. But they also shaped this project so that they have to seriously consider input from the MPOs, counties, and certain key stakeholders (e.g. the rail companies that currently run trains on NCRR’s tracks).
Highway expansion projects not only cost more to build up front than this commuter rail project, but also have more downstream costs… there may be economic expansion made possible by a new highway exit, but that development will require hundreds of parking spaces, road expansions, new signaled interchanges, deforestation, stormwater infrastructure, etc just to support the sheer number of vehicles that will access it.
Build a new commuter rail stop in DT Cary for example, and the economic expansion can rely on foot traffic which requires very little additional infrastructure.
