Whatever happened with the West Street cycletrack pilot? They should hurry up and get started with that already. That and Martin Street too.
The city is in talk with the state about signals. Because of the complexity of a 2-way cycle track crossing state roads, NCDOT is requiring dedicated phase bike traffic lights. Pretty cool, one of the first spots in the state to get such treatment.
OTOH, it turned a quick trial project into a complex and drawn out pilot project.
BPAC should get an update on progress at the next meeting this coming Monday. Will follow up after that.
Calling the people that don’t want them on sidewalks “cranky” is, in my opinion, is unjustified. I live downtown and am out on sidewalks frequently. Almost every time I go out there, there are rude Bird riders that truly believe the sidewalk is their Bird Lane. Like others on this forum have mentioned, I have been told to get out of their way. Rest assured, I did not do that. I am hoping that as the newness wears off and people become more experienced, this is less of a problem. I don’t care if they ride on the sidewalk, but I believe they should yield to the people on foot.
@inboundraleigh posted a great update about that in her recent interview with Oaks & Spokes. From what I remember the state DOT has to approve the new signal arrangement before the project can proceed.
Yes, from what I understand, once they get through some legal hoops, getting the project done shouldn’t take long. (Famous last words, of course.)
Believe it or not, the people on the scooters get a say in where they should be ridden, and how.
I step aside from people who are on scooters on the sidewalk for the same reason I step out of the way for people who are jogging on the sidewalk.
My shoes don’t say “Do Not Use On Sidewalks”.
Your car manual also tells you to keep your hands at 2 and 10.
Joe, respectfully, you must not do a lot of walking around downtown. Anyone that walks around downtown on a regular basis probably almost gets run over by a scooter every day. I constantly have to keep turning around to make sure an irresponsible scooter rider (of course not all people on scooters are irresponsible) doesn’t run over me. I would expect this if I was walking down the middle of the street. But on a sidewalk, people should have the ability to safely walk.
I live downtown. In the warehouse district. So, yeah. I walk there a lot.
I have yet to get hit by a scooter and I don’t have to “constantly” turn around when I’m walking like I’m in a paranoid 70s thriller, either.
The scooters make downtown more accessible. That’s good for business and good for people like me who live downtown because it widens the practical area I can enjoy without getting in a car (which makes them good for the environment).
But they’re not safe to ride on the street unless there’s either a) no traffic, or b) a bike lane. The fault there lies with the planners of the city of Raleigh, not with me. I’m not risking my safety or my girlfriend’s safety because the presence of the scooters on the sidewalk gives you the willies.
Clearly the city was, and will never be, fast enough to create policy and physical infra to accommodate a new mode of movement like scooters. And that’s ok. Scooters may be a fad that goes away. We may find out in a few years that the scooter business is not sustainable and it may shut down. Something new may replace it.
@joe Your use case should be accommodated because there is overwhelming feedback from pedestrians that they don’t want you on the sidewalk. At the end of the day though, why not look our for your own safety?
We shouldn’t ban you from the sidewalk directly but rather sell you on using the street with protected lanes and friendlier intersections. Over time, there will be less and less scooter users on the sidewalk.
At least that’s the path I’d like the city to take.
Exactly this. Except I don’t live downtown.
I run downtown and it’s amazing how oblivious people are who are walking. I’ve had about as many issues with irresponsible scooter riders as I have had with skateboarders and cyclists, which is maybe a half dozen. I’d rather ride a scooter in a protected bike lane myself, but I’m definitely not going to ride in the road with cars, and I don’t expect anyone else to either
The regulations seem reasonable except these two lines:
Scooters may be re-positioned in the public right of way no earlier than 7:00 AM EST each day.
The scooters are a means of transportation and many people get started before 7.
Licensee shall limit Users to persons aged eighteen (18) and older
We allow 16 year olds to drive cars but not ride scooters?
Joe - I don’t see how anyone with common sense thinks its acceptable for a scooter going 10+mph to be on a side walk with pedestrians, children, dogs, etc. I don’t see anyone arguing the fact that scooters are great… especially for a city like ours that is spread out. I’m constantly out and about on lunch going from one side of town to the other on them. The fact is, we have to have a dedicated lane for them, that is off the side walk and safe for the scooter rider. I would hope you could be open minded to that vs. selfishly thinking your safety is more important than anyone else.
Thinking out loud… in areas with wide sidewalks… could we have dedicated scooter lanes maybe on the outside of the side walk. This would keep them off the “unsafe street” and keep the pedestrians trying to safely walk as well? I know this wouldn’t work in all areas because the sidewalks aren’t that wide… but just trying to think of a solution that work for everyone and not just the people with their own agenda. I really like what they are trying to do in cameron village with the protected bike lanes on the inside of parking. I think that would be awesome!
I believe that scooters are fine on mostly empty sidewalks and especially on roads with fast speeds. At the same time, they have no place on busy sidewalks. Most riders I see actually aren’t too bad about following this guideline but there definitely are some bad apples.
Long term I think scooters on sidewalks on arterials should be fine, but for downtown is probably not workable.
I think the real solution is to hurry up and change gears out of “pilot” phase for protected cycle facilities, and proceed with implementing the Bike Raleigh plan as a complete network in one fell swoop for downtown. Seriously, once the kinks are worked out from the West Street pilot project, we could probably do the rest of downtown in a year.
Yeah, this is kind of ridiculous.
I’m all for more bike lanes (a dedicated lane would be overkill, imo). Every street should have a bike lane on both sides. And we need to widen the sidewalks. In the meantime, it’s not “selfish” to ride on the sidewalk at times. It’s necessary. Scooter riders should not have to risk their lives because walkers don’t want to share the sidewalk. I walk whenever I can and don’t care if someone is running or on a skateboard or whatever. How hard is it to take a step to the side?
Raleigh needs to wake up to the fact that its pedestrian facilities are inadequate and do something about it. If scooters are forcing the issue on that, so much the better.
The infrastructure should have been there for bikes, not the scooters. The wide use of scooters, which for a variety of reasons are more practical than bikes, is simply highlighting it. If scooters go away — and they won’t, unless they’re regulated to the point where they’re unusable — the need for bike lanes and wider sidewalks will remain.
It’s not hard to imagine that a lot of people are complaining about scooters on the sidewalk. But that does not outweigh the fact that the scooters are being used by huge numbers of people. That usage is an even purer form of feedback.
Scooter riders don’t want to be on the sidewalk. I mean, that should be obvious, but it bears highlighting. If they’re riding on the sidewalk it’s out of necessity.
I mostly agree with this. I just think the political will to implement all the bike infra has been too slow to rise. I blame politics and just the fact that driving is stupid easy around Raleigh. We are car-centric city. All the way.
Simply put, scooters on sidewalks are like desire lines summed up in this one image.