We saw a woman totally wipe out (drunk, high, stupid or all or the above) and lay in the middle of the street. In the dark. Thank God no one ran over her before the ambulance got here.
2 Likes
Aside from the reasons mentioned, I also think the scooters are good because it improves the perception of the importance of bike infrastructure & safe streets to folks who probably wouldn’t otherwise care. I see a lot of people come to downtown for a fun night out and use the scooters to get around once they park; some will ride fearlessly on the roads, but it seems most only feel comfortable in a quality bike lane or on the sidewalk. I have to think they’re much less likely to complain about, say, a new bike lane replacing street parking as opposed to someone who only drives around downtown.
8 Likes
Correlation and causation trap IMO. Scooters are also much more likely to be ridden on sidewalks instead of the street, to be used while intoxicated, to be used without a helmet, etc.
That said, I think the city needs to be a bit more heavy handed in its approach. Scooters should absolutely not be ridden at top speeds on sidewalks. If I’m ever on a scooter on the sidewalk (getting to Glenwood South requires it in one area), I’m only going the speed of a brisk jog.
I wouldn’t be against ticketing people riding them on sidewalks and forgoing the ability to do so if that requires it. I’ve had a lot of close calls with idiots myself.
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we should definitely be ticketing people riding them on the sidewalks (in most-places, I recognize there are spots where it’s necessary) - if you’re not comfortable riding in the street/in a bike lane, you shouldn’t be on a scooter
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As somebody who uses the scooters regularly in DT Raleigh (and yes, they’re helpful in getting somewhere faster than walking and without waiting for the R-Line or another bus, it’s not purely for entertainment), I always make sure to ride in the bike lanes (must say, it’s gotten a lot easier with all the bike lanes built in the last few years). Glenwood South is the only area I use the sidewalk since the scooter settings limit to 8 MPH, which is a no-go on the street.
That being said, I’m certain 80% of scooter riders are drunk assholes who could care less about staying off the sidewalk. Ideally, @couggggar, we should be ticketing people for riding on the sidewalk. Unfortunately, I think we can stick a fork in any police enforcement of that (also I have to move to the sidewalk so I can park the scooter where parking zones aren’t available). The next best option is limiting scooter speeds in pedestrian-heavy zones like Glenwood South (and I think they started doing that on Fayetteville Street too?)
4 Likes
As somebody who has ridden scooters, bikes, and walked, the notion of scooters being more dangerous intuitively tracks. They are reasonably quick: nearly as fast as a bicycle, but not nearly as stable in any axis.
They have a short wheelbase and are ridden upright with the driver fairly close to the front wheel, and have relatively small wheels - which can result in a faceplant fairly easily if they encounter even a minor obstacle while moving at speed.
In addition, the steering is much less stable. Bicycles will more-or-less keep going in a straight line even if you let go of the handlebars entirely. While I am sure there are people who can accomplish this stunt on a scooter too, I find it somewhat challenging to ride them while even so much as scratching my nose with one hand.
That said: I think the scooters are cool and helpful for certain situations in spite of my relative perception of danger. Just think there’s no point to being in denial about the potential pitfalls. In my opinion the dangers can be mitigated by being more careful, but you do have to have that conscious thought. They are so much fun that it’s easy to forget about all that and just let 'er fly, which is almost certainly not advisable.
3 Likes
When I see them riding among bicycles, they are clearly being ridden faster. While some bicycles can clearly ride a similar speed to what AI says is the scooters’ top speed (15-20 mph), that’s not a speed that non-electric assist bike-share cyclists are typically achieving.
4 Likes
Street or a bike lane? I can understand not wanting to ride in the street. Have we taken into account the cars that are parked in a bike lane or leaves that are blocking?
While I agree with ticketing people for riding recklessly on the sidewalk, I would be against ticketing those who ride in a “reasonable” manner. If we ticket those riding on the sidewalk, then we need to make sure there are good spaces for scooter, and other micro mobility users prior to doing so.
If we take a city like NYC, where there are a lot more pedestrians, ebike users, stand up scooter users, and ebike users, it comes out there was only 1 pedestrian fatality via a stand-up scooter (See Pedestrian Safety). If you compare that to motor vehicles, that’s 119.
If you look further down the reports in Table 3, you will see tha there were 329 pedestrian injuries by an ebike/scooter combined. Compare that with 7,269 vehicle related injuries.
I bring up NYC due to the fact that there are more pedestrians, and micro mobility users overall. Since there are higher number of users, one would expect a pretty high number of deaths or injuries. Given the number of deaths/injuries in NYC, it is a very minor amount compared to the number of people in NYC overall. It appears that we are looking at micro mobility users (or in this case scooter users) and inflating the risk compared to motor vehicles. If micromobility users are going to be ticketed, we need to at least put the same amount of effort in enforcing road users.
Speaking of the road users: I was pushed pretty much off the road by someone looking to park in the bike lane on Oberlin Rd today on my way home. I pounded on the MFs window. He rolled down and apologized while I yelled at him. I was in a bike lane, but clearly that doesn’t matter in many parts of Raleigh (again we can look in front of the courthouse).
Back on topic: I would be curious on the data we have within Raleigh, but I would feel confident that the majority of pedestrian injuries or deaths would not be from stand up scooters or micromobility devices.