Dorothea Dix Park


#328

There’s no proposal to turn it in to an office park. Actually the plan is to drastically reduce the number of people working at the park.


#329

The park won’t pay for itself. Some development around the periphery to fund the park is a good trade off. Obviously, great attention needs to be paid not only to the quality of the development, but also how it interacts with the surrounding neighborhoods. There are always going to be nimbys no matter what the plan. The key is to find the best compromise that works for all parties involved.


#330

I think you mean the Silent Generation. They have silently done all the damage.


#331

Some folks of the “save the park” contingency only have a problem with long term ground leases for new construction of office/condo projects, which I tend to agree with on principle, but at the same time I think the lake wheeler / Fuller heights district could use some live-work-play density added to create a new self sustaining neighborhood or borough of downtown.

No doubt we’ll start to see creative land assemblage and rezoning cases in Fuller heights as it’s currently only R6. Considering what’s happening at S saunders, I think the train has left the station for this area’s inevitable redevelopment and it would be responsible for the city to allow parts of dix Park to provide commercial services for this future hotbed neighborhood.

Tldr; I understand why their opposed, but it’s too late to stop it.


#332

And they don’t vote :ballot_box:
I truly honestly don’t care for whom the 60% of young people vote for, but please vote!!


#333

Indeed, where is the Money for creating Dix going to come from, we talk about wanting a park that will be the Crown jewel of raleigh and the state … BUT…where is it . $$$$$$$ !!! rob Peter to pay Paul. I hope that does not happen. Old saying…if you want it, you have to work for it, now it is the time to work for it…working to secure funding for such a project like Dix.


#334

Oh yes, the city council. They are the biggest unknown in the whole process.


#335

Would they let their grandparents pick their playlists, or choose their photos for snapchat? I don’t think so.


#336

@John
Sorry but I don’t follow?
My only point is that according to most polls only 30% of the 20 something’s youth vote. That is my only point, nothing more…


#337

They are letting older generations determine their future, but they’d never let them mess with their social media or entertainment.


#338

I’m seeing some chatter on Twitter that they are discussing the amphitheater for Dix and how maintaining it and Red Hat isn’t viable. It’s Twitter so it’s lacking details but some questions that need to be answered for me are:

  • Why does Dix even need to have an amphitheater when Red Hat already has momentum?
  • Why not hold the Dix amphitheater project for now until something of higher value is proposed for the Red Hat block. You then have an easy migration plan.
  • It’s not that I want to keep Red Hat in downtown but honestly DT can handle events like this due to nearby hotels, entertainment and dining, and parking decks and upcoming mass transit. Dix cannot so what is the plan for handling this in a park-like setting?

I’m not convinced this has been well thought out and instead just riding the “Dix hype train.”


#339

The Master Plan suggests park development in phases, starting with Phase A, which mostly addresses the park edges and entrances and early transfer buildings. I heard that they expect this phase to take about 10 years. The Valley Theater isn’t proposed until phase C, and it is presented as an “alternative” to Red Hat, rather than an addition to.

I don’t read the plan as suggesting the Dix theater and Red Hat would exist at the same time. But maybe I’m being too practical.

From page 212 of the Master Plan:
“Phase A beings with improvements to the site’s edges, while the subsequent phases fill in towards the middle. Later phases B, C, D need not proceed in that order (C could potentially begin before
B, for example). What is important is that the phases organize similar improvements into distinct areas; this allows construction to proceed without impacting other areas of the park.”


#340

I don’t particularly care for Red Hat to be honest. It feels like the land is underutilized to me - four prime acres in the densest part of downtown. Although the people currently living downtown are probably OK with it, who knows if/how much the noise issue might be suppressing demand for downtown housing. I think that Dix is a much better permanent location for it. Four acres out of 300 acres - sounds great.


#341

Perfect. Then I’m not worried or even care cause that is just way far down the road. Thanks for the details!


#342

For me, as a downtown resident, moving the concert venue to Dix Park is equivalent to Walnut Creek. You have to drive or take an Uber to get there. For people living downtown and staying in hotels, Red Hat offers a venue where you can pop into a restaurant for dinner and some of the bars or clubs before or after the concert. It brings people downtown to support our businesses. It’s nice to have a large public gathering place downtown even if it’s not a concert venue so the soccer stadium or hockey arena downtown might accomplish the same thing. Also, I think I’ve heard that the city makes money on Red Hat and Walnut Creek so at least it’s not a huge financial burden while it exists.


#343

If we are going to keep RedHat Amphitheater downtown, I’d like to see it happen on a permanent basis. I get that the site is a placeholder for future expansion of the convention center, but let’s be real here. The convention center is now 10 years old, and there’s no demand for anything larger yet. Even if that demand grew in the next ten years, it would take several more years after that to make it actually happen. So what if a more permanent venue had to be sacrificed at that time? At least we’d get a good decade or two out of its use. Also, thoughtful design could provide us a more well-rounded venue that could attract more events and make it a stronger asset to the community. As it stands now, RedHat is little more than permanent installation of a temporary solution that feels cheap.


#344

I think one of the problems of Red Hat of ever becoming permanent is the road that runs through Red Hat that leads to the loading docks beneath the Convention Center.It runs from W Lenoir St and curves behind the stage and goes under S McDowell St. This design of the Convention Center seemingly virtually guarantees this site as a future expansion of the Convention Center and probably makes it useless for much anything else. Increased concerts and events at Red Hat would also create additional access problems for trucks and deliveries to the Convention Center.


#345

One drawback of the current Red Hat amphitheater is that it’s a huge waste of space 300 days of the year and for a lot of the days where there are events, it can be unbearably hot in the concrete bowl. An ampitheater at Dix wouldn’t really be available more days a year but could provide some shade in the summer. Perhaps a convention center expansion could somehow preserve the downtown music venue while expanding its usefulness. On Pittsburgh’s North Shore, near the stadiums, they have Stage AE, an indoor concert venue that has an attached outdoor space. The indoor space holds 2400 people and the outdoor 5500. I assume it could also be used for smaller trades shows and other events. Win win.


#346

If we are to keep a downtown amphitheater, find some odd piece of property that isn’t useful for much else and move it there. Two blocks south of its existing location there is a wedge of property between the RR, South Street, McDowell and Dawson that might work. Sure it would be a little smaller, but then maybe Dix could handle larger stuff. Or perhaps the island of property between Capital and the RR tracks south of Peace. But taking a full, square block like that just feels, well, wasteful.


#347

I second everything you’ve just said.

I have a lot of friends that have traveled to follow bands, myself included to a small extent, and Red Hat always scores very low in comparison to many, many other venues. The acoustics, the way the seating area is graded, the heat island effect, the falling apart canopy over the stage, the lack of a true lawn…it all adds up to a pretty lame experience. The only redeeming factor is location and orientation (west sunsets).