@TedF & @KenAA
The issues that the companies have with NC’s government are not tax/financial based; they are largely socially/culturally based, and these are the issues that companies who are currently bypassing NC are citing.
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The evidence says elsewise.
TX passes a restrictive voter ID - and Apple still moves forward with their big project there. A state that’s GOP stronghold. Ted Cruzland.
TN - same thing, a new voter ID, yet Amazon lands a 5,000 tech project there soon afterwards. Far less progressive compared to NC. AllianceBernstein is relocating their HQ there from NYC (1000 jobs).
NY, which some may argue as the bastion of social and cultural progressivism, loses their Amazon mega hub. Did they, as you and UncleJesse suggest, bypass NYC because of social and cultural reasons? No. It was because of the business climate.
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Not sure what else this could mean?
they said political climate. Not business climate. Seems pretty clear to me.
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I’m referring to what John and UncleJessie have sited - social and cultural reasons.
That’s not what Apple’s spokespeople have sited.
I’m simply offering another viewpoint that’s based on the existing actions these tech firms have been making. They are moving from very liberal locations to some of the most conservative / non-progressive locations in the country. Which shows it’s about business climate.
Now how NC gets in the act is another story. The state already has Democrat majority metro areas, a Democrat gov and senator. It’s dominated by people that have moved in from the (liberal) Northeast. It doesn’t have a backwoods reputation.
Tim Cook has praised the large University-labor-pipeline advantage for the Triangle. Apple has closed on 281 acres in RTP (which is, you guessed it, right next to a couple other large California HQ’d companies, NetApp and Cisco). We’re on a positive trajectory.
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Ken,
Some of your arguments are correct:
Yes tech companies look for alternatives in areas with lower cost of living and good business climate. The trend is to establish additional presences away from high tax, high cost areas to offer their employees that option, expand their labor pool reach (and benefit tax wise themselves).
Yes Raleigh and whole RDU is doing very well despite the high profile rejections of 2018.
Apple has had a strong interest in RTP. Besides numerous ties of the C-suite to the region and institutions, also the incentives by the GOP just came in time for this expansion. Apple allegedly had a contractor start renovating the old fidelity building in Cary for initial operation and actually followed through with the land purchase at RTP.
Yet Apple still decided to double down on Austin TX although in beginning of 2018 Apple publicly stated that another campus will be established outside of CA and TX.
What is your explanation for that?
FAANG companies value business climate but equally value public image. And frankly they can afford to do so with billions in cash in the bank. Once voices became loud that Apple is nearing a deal in NC in late spring Color of Change and Human Rights Campaign started a public shitstorm including newspaper adds in the Bay Area and Seattle. A progressive leader in LGBT tech world with openly gay CEO would take notice don’t you think? Apple wants a reasonable predictable government/environment which values are at least somewhat in line with theirs. TX and TN are conservative no doubt but they are smart enough not to cause negative press in the year right when it is corporate recruiting prime time.
Awareness is the first step to make Raleigh even better
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You’re conveniently forgetting to cite HB2.
Also, once in the doghouse, as NC is because of HB2, things like voter ID, election fraud, etc., just get piled on.
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The unfortunate truth is that the legislature is happy to pass on tech companies because they just bring in more progressives and diversity. Those people don’t vote for republicans. They’re counting on getting enough companies that only care about low taxes.
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Raleigh Tech Company Pendo to Expand Headquarters and Add 590 Jobs | NC Commerce _
All in the name of landing more fortune 500 companies.
https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2019/02/22/rdu-inches-closer-to-48-acre-corporate-hangar.html?iana=hpmvp_trig_news_headline
“In Charlotte, for example, Honeywell’s decision to relocate its headquarters hinged in part on access to a high-quality corporate aviation facility, he says.”
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I love Raleigh. But it’s a one horse town compared to Austin and most of the other cities mentioned for the large high tech re-lo’s.
I’m going to drop out of this thread as it’s been beat to death and we’re probably bored of saying the same things, and the name calling is not helpful (‘rednecks, morons’ etc).
/off to another thread to complain about all these 20 story buildings everyone’s building…
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KenAA, just so you know, I appreciate the tone you’ve carried here. He doesn’t speak for everyone that reads this site. I, for one, am completely fed up with thinking a notification indicates actual news and/or developments on a topic only to come read another political rant, over and over and over again.
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There’s a button at the bottom of each thread that lets you mute the thread. It probably currently says “Tracking” for you. Great quality of life improvement for when you’re tired of notifications from specific threads. It also makes the thread disappear from your view.
Not sure what “Normal” does. Maybe it also turns off notifications but keeps it in view.
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I don’t have notifications turned on, but thank you for this info. I was getting pretty frustrated seeing the neverending posts about a mythical train going to Fuquay, and the arguments about the legislature here. Glad to know I can mute a thread. I kept looking for something like that, and it was right in front of me.
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Thanks from me as well!
KenAA, thanks for your posts. The other guy has serious issues.
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Which position is that? 39 in education? 41st in income mobility? Last in accountability to democracy? North Carolina isn’t doing great. The Triangle is doing alright, but NC as a whole isn’t, and that takes a bite out of the Triangle’s ability to thrive. Parts of the state look like third world countries.
Austin has always had a large entertainment sector in addition to the tech sector. Raleigh does not. Goes a long way towards posturing a city as cool. Even though when they branded themselves as “live music capital of the world”, the place looked an awful lot like what Raleigh looks like now.
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Or perhaps you should read the Superior Court’s ruling this evening that invalidates voter ID and the income tax cap?
seriously man, go talk to someone with the state economic development commission. You should hear what I’m ‘ranting’ about directly from them since you don’t believe me. Find one or two to actually sit down and have a conversation and then come back and tell us NC’s political climate is not an issue when it comes to economic development…ESPECIALLY for the kinds of companies Raleigh wants to recruit.
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Uncle Jessie, ease up, you are going to blow a gasket bro. Ken has the right to his opinion just like you do yours, difference is he is elegant in his approach. We get your point, it’s crystal clear where you are coming from, we respect that too. Take er easy bro.
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Eh, honestly as with most political discussions, we’re mostly finding what we want. The reality is that big tech companies expand to areas with lots of available talent. Some of those are in blue states, some are in red. The mainstream in both parties are still very corporate and willing to cut big incentives for these kinds of things. Look how hard New York and Virginia chased Amazon. If business climate was all that mattered, blue states wouldn’t be doing well (obviously nonsense), if political climate was all that mattered then TX, GA, NC etc would all be suffering (also clearly false).
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