Hillsborough Street Mixed Use Projects Near NC State

Though well intentioned at the time, quite a few of the design decisions for Hillsborough St Phase 1 have since proven to be mistakes. The ill fated double lane roundabout where they had to paint off the second lane after the fact, the lack of adequate cycle facilities throughout the corridor, and prioritizing street parking above all else, are numbers 1, 2, and 3 on the list IMO.

At some point, they’ll certainly need to go back in and fix it.

On the positive side, any future revisions will be less expensive than the original project, because so much of the original cost was tied up in burying (most of) the utility lines.

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I personally didn’t have an issue figuring out the double lane roundabout.

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Good for you, but the crash rate was sky high and stayed that way for the entire time it was set up that way. That in and of itself shows that it was a failure of traffic engineering. I am convinced that if you put this roundabout in Amsterdam people would have had difficulty negotiating it, too.

As an infrequent driver of Hillsborough, I specifically found it confusing because it was inconsistent.

Approaching from the north and west, both lanes were through lanes.

Approaching from the east, the right lane was the through lane.

Approaching from the south, the left lane was the through lane.

The urban environment at this roundabout is busy - you have to deal with peds, bikes, parked cars, driveways, stopped buses, etc… on top of fairly heavy car traffic. Signage was inadequate to give you a chance to figure it out in advance and change lanes if needed in time. The nearest intersection in every direction was so close, that posting adequate signage would probably have been impossible.

Basically, it was over-engineered from a traffic capacity perspective, at the expense of consistency, legibility, and usability. They tried to give higher-volume movements dedicated turn lanes in each direction where possible, but that meant a different approach was required in every direction, and - sorry - when I’m driving through there, I’m focusing my attention on watching for pedestrians, cyclists, other motorists, etc - and any extra workload required to figure out how to navigate it is 100% a bad thing.

The only way to navigate the roundabout correctly every time was to become habituated to it. And any traffic control device that first-time/infrequent drivers are unable to navigate reliably or safely is a failure in my book.

Having a double lane roundabout was a bad idea from the start, anyway. The only reason for it was to enable more traffic to use the corridor, which was antithetical to the fundamental purpose of the streetscape project (that is, make Hillsborough a place for people) in the first place.

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That’s quite the response to me for just saying that it didn’t cause me any problems. I didn’t assert that my experience applied to others.

It could be that the double roundabout was agreed to in order to gain alignment among those who were reticent about the Hillsborough St. redesign, and that design gave them the data needed to get behind the project? I dunno…that’s just a possible scenario (guess).

As it stands, and in my opinion, the redesign is an enormous improvement to the corridor. Traffic moves more slowly through the campus area and it feels much safer to me as a pedestrian. It also gives that stretch a much better sense of place and identity. Is it perfect? No. Am I glad it was redesigned? Yes!

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The streetscape and sidewalks are an enormous improvement from before, I’ll agree. But Hillsborough St. was much more lively before the construction. I’m not saying that’s a result of that, but there’s been some major departures since then. The whole block that consisted of East Village, Farmhouse, Katmando, PB’s is so stale now. Sadlacks was a nice anchoring point too with live music every night. Western Lanes also gone and replaced with a Target. The pandemic didn’t help with small businesses especially restaurants, but I wonder if landlords expect a higher premium now and scare off small start up bars and restaurants.

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I always remember the roundabout construction vividly as I ironically was taking a public speaking summer school course in Caldwell Hall and the professor wanted us to ‘speak clearly’ for all to hear. Which was hilarious due to all the loud as heck jackhammers and construction noise going on the entire length of the course.

I’m with you on the nightlife scene on Hillsborough Street. I feel like the Hillsborough Hikes are no longer a thing with current State kids as almost all the older bars/institutions are long gone.

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Well (and this reaches back decades), when the beer/wine drinking age went from 18 to 19 to 20 and finally 21 in the 1980s, the bar scene started to decline rapidly since most college students couldn’t even drink beer anymore. Pair that over time with the escalating rents that have come to ITB regardless of a street design, and it’s not surprising that small independent businesses have a harder path to success. I don’t automatically place blame on the redesign.

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A Crumbl Cookies and the Dankery (currently a location in Durham) are coming to the old Electric Company building next to the to-go Starbucks that opened a while back. (2526 Hillsborough)

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2022/11/02/crumbl-cookies-raleigh-nc-state-new-restaurant.html?utm_source=st&utm_medium=en&utm_campaign=me&utm_content=RA&ana=e_RA_me&j=29579731&senddate=2022-11-03

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With Insomnia Cookies barely a block down the street…. How many damn cookie shops does Hillsborough St need LMAO

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When college students can’t drink until they’re 21 but can fill up on sugar. Probably one the reasons Hillsborough Street had a downturn since the 1980s.

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Given that Crumbl was founded by students at Utah State, their founders are probably just fine with cookie shops replacing drinking establishments!

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not to mention that they come from Utah.

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Hah, that was the joke, at least in my mind

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Trust me college kids under 21, definitely drink.

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Maybe a one lane is better, though it could back up traffic from seeing aerial the right lane should be continuing direction left should be for turns. Actually I’m confused now.

The former “Hillsborough Pointe” project at 2812 Hillsborough seems to have grown…

ASR-0113-2022: CONSTRUCTION OF A NEW APARTMENT/MULTI-UNIT LIVING BUILDING WITH TWO MODULES. THE BUILDING CONSISTS OF AMENITIES AND PARKING DECK

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I guess the rezoning attempt to 7 floors here didn’t go through? imaps still shows CX-5-SH-CU

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No, I remember when that one was not passed - I want to say it kept getting deferred and then they eventually just withdrew the request, but someone correct me if I’m misremembering. Either way, 5 stories will still be substantial here vs what’s there now! Hoping for inviting, well-designed ground floor retail space - looking at you “UnCommon” :face_vomiting:

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It did get accepted as far as I know, but they gave in to the neigbors and dropped it to 5 stories although they are allowed to go to a maxium height of 68 feet.

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New ASR up for 2812 Hillsborough. Looks like a different (but still pretty uninspiring) design, this time by JDavis.


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