It’s really a chicken and egg type scenario. Public transit requires density, but density developments need good public transport. What do you build first?
People like to dog on NH on this board. And can understand why (to some degree at least). But that is a good example of a developer building high density away from downtown. We need more of these high density nodes throughout the suburbs. Then it starts making sense to connect them via BRT or light rail. And then hopefully you get more high density development in between these nodes along these corridors.
Indeed, some people decry NH. But not everything of high density has to be built in DTR. Atlanta has Buckhead. LA has Century City. Dallas has the complexes on LBJ/75. Houston has the Galleria. DC has Arlington. For that matter, people in lower Manhattan complained when high-rise buildings began popping up in midtown around the recently built Pennsylvania Station and Grand Central Terminal.
I was no fan of NH when it first got built because it got some things wrong. But 15 years down the line, given how much it gets right compared to everything else that gets built outside of downtown, and how it keeps steamrolling through phase after phase with less opposition at each step, I am convinced that the way forward for the Triangle is to have a zillion North Hillses all over the place. Penmarc, Cargill, Five Horizons, Cary Town Center, Mission Valley, Fairgrounds, Crabtree, WakeMed, K-Mart @ Western. The more the merrier. Almost everybody genuinely loves NH. This is a great opportunity. Somebody who might otherwise be a density NIMBY might be convinced to play along if the developer said “What we’re going to do here is build the next North Hills.”
There’s no reason why this type of development can’t continue around the Beltline, with dense residential/mixed use up and down the major streets (six forks, wake forest, Atlantic, Crabtree, Wade). I don’t believe this is competing against downtown, as I think it’s more competing against the suburban office parks spread much further out. ultimately, I believe that we should transform ITB into a dense environment. Downtown will eventually benefit from this by having its own fully urban (with all the right infrastructure) niche at the very center, which these new North Hills style developments will never have.
…and I think this is exactly what we need in the Triangle (hell, the entire United States, even), too:
recognize that, sure, there’s a lot of people who like suburbia and their private, individualized houses with white, picket fences -but as a society, we have the demand and a need for a more responsible alternative
not just question the idea of sprawl, but rally around a new, better version of a modern community and social ecosystem like North Hills or Dix Park (which may or may not include light rail or BRT, among other things)
Somebody who might otherwise be a density NIMBY might be convinced to play along if the developer said “What we’re going to do here is build the next North Hills.”
That’s the calling card for the Fenton project in Cary.
Columbia Development finally closed on the Fenton property across from Cary Town Center the other day. It’s located on one of the alternate routes (Western Blvd Extension) for the BRT.
If Light Rail went on the existing rail corridor along Chatham, the center of Fenton would be about 3/4 of a mile from a Trinity Road rail stop.
When Fenton gets going in earnest the trailer park next to it can’t be far behind for re-development. If the Fenton density was carried up to Chatham it would be an extremely busy place. This is especially interesting to me because it’s going to be on the BRT roadmap one way or the other. I think this is the type of development node we’ll need in order to justify Light Rail in the future.
With North Hills West, Kane got the retail mix right but the form wrong. The whole development was very inward-focused, leaving no way to expand while maintaining a coherent experience.
Fortunately they realized the error and got it right for NH East, which although still mostly inward-focused, does have a street grid and therefore plenty of ways to expand in the future.
The Fenton master plan has much more in common with NH West and there is nothing immediately apparent that could be a “phase 2” where they can make a similar correction.
The current property purchased is over 90 acres and they will be building that for quite a few years. Looks like the State could sell another 30 or 40 acres to the Northeast. The trailer park is over 40 acres and that is located to the northwest. Another 20 plus acres to the north of the soccer park. Plenty of room to expand.
Part of the issue with Fenton is the Trinity Road extension. That’s something that was determined before Columbia came on the scene. The other issue is that the Creek that splits it from the soccer park and gives the property it’s shape.
TedF mentioned some of the expansion possibilites on the north side of Cary Town Blvd, but there’s also the opportunity to the south at the Cary Town Center site. That was recently sold and I believe there are plans for at least one pedestrian bridge over Cary Town Blvd. There may be 2 bridges planned. If the BRT comes down Western to Cary Town Blvd then both sides will be equally connected to mass transit.
I agree that it’s going to take many years to build out Fenton proper.
Except that Brier Creek is a golf community with a bunch of single family homes and town homes mixed in with huge big box stores with many many acres of surface parking lots. Fenton will have none of that except for some surface parking (mostly at Wegman’s).
I recently saw the Trinity Rd realignment proposal with a railroad grade separation at Chatham St (will be a little east of the current Trinity Rd / Chatham St intersection). From that point they will eventually connect the Trinity Rd all the way to Cary Towne Center Blvd. Not sure of any time schedule yet…
This is what has keep Marta in Atlanta from expanding up the congested I75n corridor. The wrong sorts of people use mass transit. This issue actually goes back to street cars in the early 1900s and the fear of undesirables coming in and out of neighborhoods at will.
It is discrimination however its based in some level of facts. Hugh McColl, the old ceo of bank of america (formerly nationsbank) had the bus station moved downtown charlotte away from his egomaniac building he had built. Nobody hear really heard about it (or cared) and it caused a bit of a stir in charlotte. why do you think he had charlotte move the bus station away from his HQ Taj McColl?
