Right up the middle of Six forks from DTR up to Strickland and upzone the whole corridor like North Hills
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This would be perfect and Iâm pretty sure it would get plenty of use.
I hate to admit it because it wouldnât benefit me at all, but I think it would work well.
I was downtown cary earlier today and it is pretty amazing The level of development activity happening. The crane was whizzing around the new library as they go vertical with condos and ground floor retail. The corner of Walker and Chatham has been razed in preparation for a three-story mixed-use office building. I think another successful light rail corridor would be downtown Raleigh to downtown Cary via Hillsborough > Western > Chatham. Upzone the whole thing
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Why would you build light rail on those streets when there is a 200 foot wide railroad corridor to run trains on?
Full agree with the upzone part though. Much easier than Six Forks, too - Itâs mostly a commercial and industrial corridor. Not a lot of single family to object. Really I think at this point, regardless of current zoning, a developer could propose almost anything of any size basically anywhere along the corridor, in Raleigh or Cary, and it would get approved.
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Yeah, I mean at this juncture in our development that would never happen on Hillsborough Street. But had we been progressive 30 years ago we could have used the urban fabric of that corridor to upgrade to a light rail or street car system instead of the fancy roundabouts and road diet that Hillsboro got. DTC was not a destination at that time, so we wouldnât have seen it anywaysâŚ
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In the Scheme of things the Apple 
effect will add way more than the projected 3,000 jobs this is just the beginning hopefully Leadership will come together with a aggressive agenda and get alot of stuff done as a collective with transit, housing and infrastructure needs regional planning is the key.
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But were using the rail corridors for commuter rail correct? like light rail we have to find something or yes I would be in the middle of a road.
I feel like Iâve been having some version of this conversation around here for three years now.
"We need light rail!
Okay. What corridor are you looking to connect that you think you need light rail to do that?
I donât know! But we need light rail!
Okay. And why do we need light rail specifically, as opposed to heavy rail or BRT?
Because light rail is cool! And Charlotte has light rail! So we need light rail too!"
I think âBecause Charlotte has light railâ is the rationale here. The point I always try to make to people is that Raleigh grew up around railroad lines whereas Charlotte grew up around freeways, so it makes sense for Charlotte to plunk down a couple billion dollars on a single light rail line, whereas we can get way more bang for the buck running service on the heavy rail lines and then using BRT, which is much cheaper, to connect the corridors that arenât near a railroad line. We can build an awesome public transit network much more economically with a combination of heavy rail, BRT, and well designed bus routes rather than have to sink tons of money into a single line. All of these tools are just means to an end, which is to move people from one place to another, rather than an end unto themselves.
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Agreed, but does that significantly affect the way that we think about transportation in the region? We already have a tremendous amount of people moving here each day. If it does, then we have a serious problem with how we are doing transportation planning in this areaâŚ
Bingo.
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Light rail has been studied in this area for longer than Iâve been alive, I think. Thereâs a reason it hasnât happened, and thatâs because itâs not a good fit for our region. Even DOLRT, while exciting, was creating a light rail corridor out of whole cloth, and thus made it easy for the people holding the title to that land ::coughDukecough:: to kill it. For a polycentric region like ours, itâs just not worth trying to find whole new corridors (or take up land on the main NCRR corridor) for a new mode for the region.
We already have the NCRR corridor for commuter rail, conveniently connecting six of the seven biggest job centers in the region (Duke, Durham, RTP, Cary, NC State, DT Raleigh, with Chapel Hill/UNC being left out). Much of the tracking is already there. The station in downtown Raleigh (and soon Downtown Cary) is there. And then we have wide avenues coming from each of the cardinal directions in downtown where we can add bus-only lanes. Itâs not cool and doesnât exactly scream BIG CITY like light rail, but itâs going to work if we allow it and not throw out completed transit plans every other year.
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I agree that light rail isnât a good fit for the Triangle (as much as I wish it wasâŚ). But if we want to actually improve transit in our region instead of failing at the same thing over and over again, I think itâs just as important to remember why it keeps being brought back from the dead.
I agree, and the recently-approved updates to the Wake Transit Plan is a solid step forward for that! The real challenge is to get the rest of the public to buy into that idea. Like @daviddonovanâs implying, light rail being brought back from the dead every few years is not a debate about evidence or reason; in my eyes, the real road block is that people feel like saying âlight rail or dieâ without thinking through it.
But why? I think itâs because we have no inspiring examples to look up to. The Triangleâs transportation ecosystem is polycentric and is growing both economically and in prominence. At least for cities with BRT operations I can think of off the top of my head, those properties make the Triangle stand out from its future peers:
Many of these BRT services are too new to be a proven solution, and too low-key to be inspiring to non-transit nerdsâ eyes. They donât capture the public imagination like trains do, they arenât a part of popular cultures like subways, and they donât have rose-tinted associations of Disney magic like monorails.
Without those mental aids, of course BRT and commuter rail wonât matter to people; the Average Joe doesnât know any better than light rail and subways, and has no reason to imagine anything new. Call me a Debbie Downer, but Iâm not a fan of the chances of overcoming that kind of ignorance and indifference -and Iâm not sure whatâs the best move here 
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Light Rail makes sense for Raleigh, thatâs all there could be a line easily connecting downtown to Cameron Village through midtown/north hills Up to perhaps Millbrook. That a heavy corridor.
I think the attitude of weâll be fine with BRT/And Commuter Rail is 50% of the attitude. We need the whole network cause BRT is only service for a major road throughfares, in cities with light rail that have BRT also, have them mostly on busy throughfare corridors where theirs the density it isnât meant for the whole city can rely on it to get everywhere cause it canât go that far or it wouldnât be Rapid. Just that certain area, in the city itâs made for, while Commuter Rail more serves the regional aspect and metro. aspect of the area that serves suburbs and people who far in the city but in the area to connect to go back and forth. So you point in saying it just modes that move people around is totally baseless because there modes for certain needs.
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âCommuter railâ if done right (like Denver) is more like heavy rail/metro rail than light rail. Denverâs A-line runs a train every 15 minutes all day from 5am to 7pm! Nobodyâs proposed that here so far but it is possible. The mode/technology and the service/frequency are two separate issues.
Denver-class service with electric trains on dedicated tracks is the only scenario under which I would agree to spending $2b on commuter rail. The 2005-era plan, which would have run Diesel Multiple Unit trains every 20 minutes all day on dedicated tracks, is about the minimum I would categorize as Denver-class. Electric service would be better because itâs cheaper to operate, has better acceleration and can stop more frequently, and the trains are more reliable and require less service.
I think I mentioned it before but I think 8-2-8-2 conventional commuter trains would be worth about $500-$600m capital funds, at most.
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In my opinion- Something as big and polarizing as light rail is something that should be studied constantly (once a decade or so)
Dynamics and public opinions change so much over time.
Also the make up of our city and region drastically change.
Think of all the things we may have thought no way about 10-20 years ago that may seem like sure fire things 10-20 years from now.
Not saying we need exclusive light rail corridors. Just more than conventional commuter rail.
Reading everyoneâs great perspectives and opinions, I do think we could get by with a good commuter rail system and BRT but it has to be done right.
We need to have some BRT on actual dedicated ways with good coverage and full signal priority.
Any variation of commuter rail needs to run late nights and weekends.
While weâre scrapping light rail, an on street streetcar downtown circulator from Downtown south through downtown and possibly up to north hills could not only be useful but an actual tourist draw in itself. Add another quick line from NC state / village district and weâre pretty much set up for the next century.
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I think it can be a combo of many different modes in different corridors. I donât think it has to be an all or nothing approach. I definitely want to keep commuter rail moving forward, we have BRT in the works, but perhaps light rail and/ or streetcar are appropriate in on other corridors.
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With street car the thing that makes it much easier than light rail is putting directly in a traffic lane. Obviously it serves more-so as just a downtown circulator but has a huge impact on convincing people not to drive for short trips and errands.
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Go Triangle just proposed a commuter rail sometime this week it was on the news last night, they want to use the existing route but possibly add a different track. The start date would be as early as 2025.
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Electric street cars are more environmentally friendly, plus I can see the tracks being used to separate bike traffic from car trafficđđ˝. Just to note, Raleigh is committed to having all electric vehicles (buses, utility vehicles, etc.) by 2030-35 which is cool.
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I like street cars because you essentially have stations every block. And theyâd go a huge way connecting our downtown adjacent districts much more than even light rail.
I think a good implementation pattern would be starting with the Hillsborough / NC state to capitol line.
Then once downtown south is up and going, that line.
If things are doing good, run it up to north hills. Thatâs a bit aspirational distance wise for street car but imagine the usage itâd get on the weekends.
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