If Cary were to suddenly stop trying to be a town and decide to be a city, its downtown would take off overnight.
If they want to retain the small town feel along Chatham, that would be just fine with me, so have a five story limit south of the tracks. Academy Street is also pretty nice, one of the few spots in Cary that has some real “there” there, so take steps to preserve that.
There is plenty of room to work with north of the tracks. Pretty much the only thing worth saving in there is the Page-Walker Hotel, so it’s almost a blank slate, so the sky’s the limit. Start by building a new town hall in the 12 story range, and move all town functions there. This frees up the rest of the municipal campus for redevelopment. Build out a better street grid, starting with improving the connections across the tracks. Zone for 20 stories, and let the good times roll!
Generally speaking a city is 100,000 and up. A large city is considered to be 300,000 and up. But many towns and cities just call themselves whatever they want.
Yeah, that makes sense. Apex in particular is a sleeping giant. In just a couple of years it’s likely to push aside Chapel Hill as the Triangle’s 4th most populated city.
In my mind, that document is a justification for marketing the cities separately when you’re trying to bring convention and visitor business to your city. That’s logical and I understand that. It is not a good argument for having Raleigh/Cay and Durham/Chapel Hill in separate MSA’s.
I remember that too, @John. Years ago (I’m talking 1990’s), there were several instances where a member of the national news media would be in Durham doing a story and at the end of the report they’d say something like “This is Sam Donaldson reporting from Raleigh NC”. Officials in Durham got really upset and lobbied for placing Durham in a separate MSA.
I was geeking out on a MSA map today and decided to look at the 4 similarly sized (physcially) MSAs across the northern Piedmont in NC. From East to West, it includes: Raleigh; Durham-Chapel Hill; Greensboro; and Winston-Salem.
In 1990, the population spread among the 4 was pretty narrow with Raleigh being the most populated and Durham-Chapel Hill being the least populated. The spread among the four was 161,025. Raleigh was also barely larger than Greensboro. 1990 populations are below:
Raleigh: 544,031
Greensboro: 540,041
Winston-Salem: 488,114
Durham-Chapel Hill: 383,006
Fast forward to 2017, and the four MSAs are still ranked in the same order, though Durham-Chapel Hill is closing the gap with W-S, and will likely pass it in the next decade. Now, the spread from top to bottom is huge: 708,094 (or more than the total current MSA population of either W-S or D-CH). Raleigh is literally lapping these places in growth, and will likely lap Greensboro next decade. Put another way, Raleigh added more people to their MSA than the three others combined, with nearly 150,000 to spare.
The comparison of Raleigh to Charlotte is a bit apples to oranges because of the sheer difference in physical land area that they respectively cover. In other words, the land area that Charlotte’s MSA covers is nearly 3X that of Raleigh’s.
In 1990, Charlotte’s MSA was 1,364,911 across 14,499 km2
In 2017, Charlotte’s MSA was 2,550,296 in the same land area
Perhaps a better comparison is to combine both the Raleigh and Durham MSAs into one for that comparison purpose alone? Even then the two combined MSAs have less land area.
In 1990, Raleigh+Durham MSAs were 927,037 in 11,415 km2
In 2017, the two MSAs combined were 1,962,064 in the same land area.
By Density metrics, Raleigh’s small MSA is the most densely populated in the state with 243 ppl/km2 to Charlotte’s 176 ppl/km2. Combining the two Triangle MSAs puts Charlotte’s MSA slightly in the lead with the Triangle’s combined density of 172 ppl/km2. This is a result of Durham’s MSA being way less densely populated at 106 ppl/km2.
If we look at the CSA populations, Charlotte’s population grows to 2,709,112 over 16,725km2 for 162ppl/km2.
The Triangle’s population over its new CSA (smaller) designation is 2,006,275 over 12,071km2 for 166ppl/km2. FWIW, the OBM recently moved Harnett and Lee County out of the Triangle’s CSA and assigned them to Fayetteville.
Anytime. I’m a total geek about these things.
Essentially, if you look at the data, the narrative of Raleigh being NC’s most sprawling metro falls apart. If we measure sprawl by looking at land area vis-a-vis population, there’s no real compelling data that bolster’s that narrative.
Maybe it’s just that it’s easy to connect Raleigh to sprawl to create Spraleigh?
Additionally, Raleigh continues to be NC’s municipal density leader among the state’s largest cities.
Hi John, do you happen to have a breakdown on which counties now make up the Charlotte, Triangle’s, and Fayettville’s CSA’s? Please and thank you!
I find it hard to keep up with which counties are in which MSA vs. CSA, much less what the most current populations are for each…crazy but fun!
The Federal Office of Management and Budget delineates MSAs and CSAs. The last time they were changed was last year. In that year, Raleigh’s MSA didn’t grow, but Durham’s added a county. Also, The Triangle’s CSA lost 2 counties to Fayetteville, causing the CSA to lose near 200,000 people.
So, in effect, as Wake County continues to drive the lion’s share of Central NC’s growth, it was both Durham and Fayetteville that were rewarded with new counties in their MSAs. Fayetteville’s CSA was also awarded two counties from the Triangle’s CSA.
Raleigh’s MSA is simple. It’s just Wake, Johnston and Franklin Counties. Durham has a few more counties, and Charlotte’s is enormous. Part of Charlotte’s statistical advantage is that they are more isolated from other core cities, thus allowing their MSA to spread in more directions.
Here’s a fun link for those who like this sort of stuff. You can peruse various sections for MSA, CSA, Urban Areas, etc. Some of it up to date, while others are only updated every Census. https://www.citypopulation.de/php/usa-metro.php
You’re welcome Niko.
Ironically, it seems as if the opposite was possibly true. Raleigh and Durham were in one MSA until 2003 when they were split in two, rumored to have been egged on by some in Durham who wanted their own MSA.
Do you think there exists a possibility that the 2020 Census will have a Raleigh-Durham-Fayetteville CSA? I feel like there is probably enough commuting between the areas to make that stick…
