Took it too. There was a lot to review. I did use the comment section to expand on my answers.
I took it and was glad to see quite a bit of information.
I was surprised how busy the Shelley Lake/Mine Creek trail users counts were. I also found the maps to be quite interesting.
Given how many people use Shelley Lake, I wish they would address the flooding. It appears that there are quite a few comments about the flooding. Dropbox - Public_Outreach_Summary.pdf - Simplify your life
It appears they have at least collected data on the trails, unfortunately Iām not sure how I feel with how quick the maintenance was being handled. I had seen that it was reported that others had this same feeling. It was also good to hear that they are at least looking at the complaints of the busy trails and how thereās conflict with pedestrian/bicyclists.
I think at a minimum it provided a good update on the trails and information. I submitted comments regarding to at grade crossings. On Reedy Creek Rd/Edwards Mill, I actually cross Edwards Mill Rd instead of using the tunnel. I use Reedy Creek to get to Umstead via public transit. The intersection has a pedestrian light/crossing which is what I believe works as a good crossing area. The problem with other areas such as the intersection of Blue Ridge, North Hills Drive, Lassiter, Anderson, and Horton St. have is that even though there appears to be a clear idea of who has the right of way (yield to pedestrian signs), many cars do not stop for pedestrians. Having an actual red light/crosswalk provides a more clear cut idea on who has the right of way. An example of this is the crosswalk at North Hills across Lassiter Mill Rd. I wonder what the cost is to put a red light across Blue Ridge Rd instead of the flashing lights it currently has.
2 Likes
Yeah Shelley Lake was designed to hold back floodwater from Crabtree Valley Mall; hence why such a small lake has such a big dam.
I think as the north end of the lake has filled with sediment, floods have gotten more frequent as the water has had less room to go. Thereās no high ground to move the greenway. Dredging the lake would be difficult. An elevated boardwalk, Lake Lynn style, could be one way.
1 Like
Looking through this report the first thing that jumped out at me is that they missed this pedestrian fatality which happened last year where the Walnut Creek Greenway crosses Gorman Street (which is probably the shittiest greenway crossing in the whole city)
RPD Crash report:
http://crash.raleighpd.org/files/202004/20200427255723.pdf
This is fully logged and reported in the Open Data system so there is no excuse for this getting missed.
Not that thereās any excuse for running someone down in a marked crosswalk, but I wonder if the young man was wearing headphones/earphones? I see that all the time and wonder how safe it is to not be in charge of all ones senses when engaging traffic? I never ride or run on streets or across streets listening to music/podcasts, etc.
2 Likes
My dad used to race bikes and stressed from when I was very young that you ALWAYS have to pay attention to what is going on around you. I never run with ear buds (actually just gave a set away to a friend). When there is no sidewalk, I ALWAYS run facing traffic, so I can see what is coming towards me.
But I see folks all the time completely oblivious to their surroundings, on their phones, back to traffic, zoning out to musicā¦ SMDH I donāt want anyone getting hurt, so we all gotta look out for ourselves b/c someone else isnāt paying attention to you.
5 Likes
Sorry, not going to entertain any victim blaming. Police assigned fault to the driver who had every sign that he needed to stop. He drove past a stopped car in the right lane for crying out loud.
A little disheartened that this is the main reaction we are getting to that tragedy, even on a board like this.
We are all so subjugated by motorist supremacy that we canāt even imagine a system where a pedestrian following the rules will never get killed. That is the whole point behind vision zero. Speculative insults of the deceased like āI bet he had earbuds. I never run with earbuds.ā (Implied: āDumb kid. Wasnāt paying attention.ā) should have no place here or anywhere.
That said, the main ones I hold responsible are the ones who planned and built that crossing. One unlikely possibility is that the city of Raleigh didnāt install a signal because they were too cheap. If so, then shame on them.
But that is a NCDOT road and I suspect that the real reason is that years ago, some DOT PE signed off on a study saying that a traffic signal was not warranted there, because that is what the MUTCD told them to say based on pedestrian counts. They follow the book because if they do, it is harder for them to be held liable for a deficient design. But licensed engineers are perfectly within their power to specify something that they believe will improve safety - even if it does not follow the absolute letter of the MUTCD. Which, here, duh! That sort of paint-by-numbers engineering is lazy, reprehensible, and if thatās what is behind this, whoever did it has blood on their hands.
If this were built today, they would probably install a HAWK no questions asked, but those didnāt exist when this greenway was built. A standard green-yellow-red traffic light would have been the approach- and if they had, that kid would still be alive (and that greenway crossing would feel 100% safer!) No excuse.
15 Likes
I also have a problem with the all the recent utility/sewer line work on the greenways. There are multiple areas where the grading of the rebuilt trail is piss poor and water easily pools on the trail.
1 Like
Perhaps you missed the beginning of my comment?
1 Like
Regardless of what you prefaced it with, you did speculatively blame the victim who died for some hypothetical negligence. Not good form in any case, but especially without facts to back it up.
For police to blame a driver for killing a pedestrian is something so rare that you can be almost absolutely certain he did nothing wrong. Police generally do not like to cite drivers in these cases unless they are DUI. Drivers can usually claim āDidnāt see himā or āHe darted outā and then get off Scott Free. The presence of a witness who did stop, and saw the whole thing, probably helped, but if the kid were wearing earbuds my money says the police still would have blamed him and let the driver go free.
The kidās only fault may have been that he did not have enough experience to recognize that drivers might not yield the right-of-way (AS THEY ARE LEGALLY REQUIRED TO) on Gorman like they will on Dan Allen up on campus. Sometimes the experience necessary to build the defensive walking habits needed to stay alive in our motorist supremacist world comes from close calls - but on a race track like that stretch of Gorman, there is no margin for error.
4 Likes
OMG. Are you done lashing me?
Look, I am a huge pedestrian advocate and activist. I am also a huge cyclist. In fact, Iāve ridden my bike over 2500 miles in charity fundraisers alone, and on VERY dangerous roads. Iāve spent countless hours in community meetings advocating, routing, and fighting for both pedestrian and bike infrastructure. I get it. I am not blaming the victim.
That said, and no matter how much it may be of distaste to anyone, we all have to be aware of our surroundings. Iād rather be hyper aware & cautious than ārightā & dead.
Now, let me be clear AGAIN; thereās no excuse for running someone over in a street, crosswalk or not. The blame lies on the driverās shoulders.
We live in a world where everyone seems to be distracted, especially drivers, and we all have to live in that reality.
Like @Nickster I too run/walk opposite of traffic because I want to see whatās coming at me, and this is even the case when Iām on a sidewalk when I have that choice. If I am in a location that doesnāt have the proper infrastructure to make me safer, I choose to be even more aware because my life depends on it.
So, go ahead and thumbs down me again. You do you. However, Iāll defend @Nickster for the thumbs down that he also got, as he was only trying to share his own personal safety protocols.
4 Likes
I am glad that you have personal safety protocols. I have similar protocols myself. I too have cycled thousands of miles on roads of all kinds, mostly commuting. To stay alive as pedestrians or cyclists of course, we all have to acknowledge the reality we live in and be super vigilant and defensive while weāre out there, and that is not news - probably everyone here knows it, and maybe some of them are as f***ing exhausted of it as I am. We teach our kids that streets are death zones and we quite literally feel safer handling a 16 year old the keys to a 4000 pound vehicle capable of traveling at 120mph and turning them loose than we do having them walk across the street in many places. Itās absolutely bonkers, this world we live in.
By the way: it doesnāt have to be this way. I would probably just accept our world as immutable fact, and in fact I did, until I spent one year abroad in a country where, quite simply, if you follow the rules you will live. People send their 6 year olds walking to kindergarteners by themselves by teaching them the route, telling them to only cross with the signal, and that is literally enough. It was mind blowing and eye opening. The degree to which the doctrine of motorist supremacy has steamrolled everything in this country in the name of saving a few drivers a few seconds is stark and really unsettling when you think about it.
When a kid dies because he evidently hadnāt been hardened into the system enough to really understand what was at stake, the correct thing to do is not pat ourselves on the back for what we do to stay alive, nor finger-wag over what the kid might have been doing wrong or could have done to protect himself. NOT NEWS. Everyone knows the answers to these things.
The correct response in this situation is to call for change.
1 Like
So on further reflection Iāll chill a bit.
I acknowledge that itās a natural reaction - one that I have too - if I hear about somebody getting hurt or killed doing something that I do (in this case, jogging on a greenway), to ask myself whether there was anything I would or could have done in the same situation to protect myself from coming to the same harm. To double check my own protocols - to determine whether (1) my protocols would have kept me safe, (2) I need to be more vigilant in some way, (3) I should accept it as unavoidable and swallow the risk, or (4) given this new information, the activity is no longer worth the risk and I should give it up.
It is natural and fine to do all of the above. And to share these thoughts with others, including those of us here on this forum, could conceivably wind up helping - although Iād like to think that most of us here are pretty keenly aware of how bad things are.
However, to stop there, emphasizing the self-preservation side of the issue - is to do the rest of the city, country, and species a disservice. There are systemic forces at play here underlying the need for us to treat something as benign as jogging on a path as a life-or-death situation like this. We must acknowledge that this is real, that it is a bad thing, that it can be changed, and that we must advocate for that change.
2 Likes
Turns out, there was an update on the greenway plan update last week.
City staffers have held 14 focus group meetings and directly reached out to 40 community groups to hear peopleās opinions about this in the past 12 months. Two more Master Plan Steering Committee meetings and 2~3 virtual open houses are planned to be held once a draft master plan is ready for people to see (and roast?).
They also released a more detailed schedule:
Note that āPRGABā above is the Parks, Recs, and Greenways Advisory Board -AKA the committee that will report to City Council about this plan update.
2 Likes
While making plans to paddleboard out on the Neuse today, I came across the Neuse River Blueway Plan. Looks like it was approved by the City Council back in March, with the goal of making the Neuse more of a recreational asset for Raleigh.
I havenāt read the whole plan yet, but it looks like there are 6 new launches proposed, all connected to the existing greenway system and all on land the city already owns. This doubles the existing number of launches and makes more of the river accessible for shorter trips. For example, there is currently only one launch near Falls Lake, and then nothing for 10 miles.
Also, was anyone aware that there is an existing vague plan to maybe, someday create a whitewater park where the Neuse meets Falls Lake? (Looks like thereās been no movement on it for 10 years though).
18 Likes
Also, Kyla and I are taking recommendations for where to paddleboard in the area. Weāve done Lake Raleigh, Lake Johnson, the Cape Fear near Lillington, and are about to go check out the Neuse.
2 Likes
Very cool! The lack of water features is one of my two biggest complaints with Raleigh. Happy to see some plans to capitalize on the assets we do have.
2 Likes
Love this. I need an excuse to rebuild my canoe. I biked up on the trail there this morning, and kept thinking I need to get the canoe in the water.
As far as the Whitewater Park, I remember reading about this some time ago (probably the same time as you). But nothing since. There is one in Charlotte. I remember them having issues with the brain eating bacteria and being able to control it. But I think they treat and recirculate water.
Ironically, didnāt the lake swallow up natural whitewater features? Hence the name āFalls of Neuseā.
2 Likes
I was recently looking into tubing around here. Sounds like you can put in just below the dam but as you mention there are no public accesses where you can take out anywhere nearby. You can pay for a parking pass at Neuse River Outfitters off of Capital Blvd but other than that youāre on your own. More accesses are definitely a good thing!
3 Likes
Do the Haw River in Saxapahaw, then stop in for Haw River Ales, Left Bank charcuterie or Saxapahaw general store.
4 Likes