IMO, it’s simple: Cubans love baseball. Baseball is always going to have way more visibility in Miami than soccer.
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I have to disagree as it relates to the stadium financing.
There’s plenty of other Latin Americans in Miami, and other people in general there who love soccer.
The soccer stadium is a victim of the complete fiasco of the baseball stadium. LoanDepot Park is expensive, the city’s on the hook for most of the price, the stadium is usually barely 1/6 full, and the team sucks while the owner doesn’t seem like he cares much about being competitive. It’s made the city, if anything, overly gunshy about any new stadium financing of any kind.
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How much do you know about Miami? I’m being serious here.
There is a lot of soccer fandom in Miami for sure, but it’s largely for leagues outside the US, and for national teams during major international tournaments, especially The World Cup.
All in all, Miami’s fandom for local sports (both professional and college) is quite pathetic for a metro its size.
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Hah, just visited a few times.
I’m not arguing that baseball is less popular than soccer, just pointing out re: @ahops0428 point that the relative popularity isn’t the reason the stadium financing has been such a challenge - after all soccer is less popular than baseball literally everywhere in the US. If anything it’s the baseball team struggling so much with the many facets of that terrible stadium deal that makes the city more leery of a smaller league, even if in-person attendance is literally MLS’ whole deal.
And correct, Miami teams struggle to draw crowds, but it’s a big TV and merchandise market and owners and players love being there (and don’t pay state income tax) so it will always punch above its attendance weight in team placement conversations.
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That why the Florida Panthers will never leave, and are the worst team in terms of attendance in NHL.
The biggest pushback is the sacrificing of public parkland for a stadium. That’s where the majority of resistance is coming from. The city’s private practice attorneys are saying that it’s a bad deal to turn over public land to a private developer, especially due to the sweetheart lease deal that the developer is getting.
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As much as we complain about the location of PNC Arena, FLA Live Arena is just atrocious. It’s so far west that it literally sits across a freeway from the Everglades and next door to a huge outlet mall.
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I think @oakcityyimby captured the point I was trying to make, which was in relation to stadium financing. I know the city of Miami is on the hook for a lot of that Marlins Park. Not at all disagreeing on the popularity of baseball amongst the Cuban/Cuban-American community down there either. Also, I thought I had read a while back this whole Inter Miami complex/stadium/mixed used development was supposed to go on an empty/planned to be demolished city golf course. However I looked and Melreese Country Club is very much open still.
It’ll be interesting how all this plays out because I feel like they’ve been on a quest for a stadium for many, many years.
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Finding a location for the stadium has been like playing whack-a-mole for years now. Everytime they think they have one, it fails. Let’s see what happens to this one.
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Where you know the tax food, stadium and beverage tax, should fund PNC Arena also, can we accumulate money to fund an MLB stadium without taxing folks.
Looking through the list of CSA’s, the criteria of what counts seems to be a bit for debate. Some CSA’s are comically large - Pittsburgh’s has Steubenville, OH and West Virginia’s Northern Panhandle, Detroit’s goes up to Flint, NYC’s has rural areas 100 miles from Manhattan - Raleigh’s is comically small as Rocky Mount and Fayetteville are their own CSA’s. Merely adding in Rocky Mount (another 288k and change), would put the Triangle over two other CSA’s
- Cincinnati: Saw moderate (5.4% growth) but is a old, established city turning around and their population went down by 1/3 in the last 50 years while Raleigh’s roughly quadrupled. Has three major league teams, one out of history, one out of regional rivalry, one out of serious soccer support. They do have the same CSA problem the Triangle has, unlike DC/Baltimore and Boston/Providence Dayton isn’t combined with Cincinnati.
- Las Vegas: With sports betting settled and kosher, it’s become the shiny new toy for sports, getting NHL and NFL in quick succession with MLS wanting in and MLB’s Athletics kicking the tires. While tourism will be a hedge against local struggles, giving a city too many teams in quick succession typically backfires (see 1960s-70s Atlanta and late 80s-early 90s Miami).
Adding in Fayetteville - which would also toss in Sanford, Southern Pines/Pinehurst, Laurinburg, and Lumberton - is another 834k which curiously would put us above Charlotte though it’s a lot more spread out than Charlotte. This would put the Triangle also above
- Indianapolis: Two teams (NBA/NFL), both with decent support even if they had to build a dome on spec to get one under dubious circumstances. Has often punched below its weight with Chicago/Cincinnati not too far away. Also a big college market though not Triangle tier.
- Kansas City: Three teams (MLB/NFL/MLS), warmed up to MLS while the other two were in a swoon. Arguably a bit over-teamed though they’re a large regional tentpole. Also built an arena without a tenant and have done everything to not have one.
- Columbus: Two teams (MLS/NHL) and a dominant P5 college program above them both. One of two markets on this list that is a good parallel with the Triangle, though with six other pro teams within a 2.5 hour drive.
- San Antonio: One team (NBA) but one that has became a part of the local culture in a way the Canes could only dream of though 5 titles in 15 years helped. Another market if a city and some suburbs and not much else. Also MLS/a dominant P5 college a hour or so away.
- Pittsburgh: Three teams (MLB/NFL/NHL) and a P5 school, plus another P5 school (WVU) a little over an hour away but out of CSA. Old city through and through and the only one on this list to lose population.
- Sacramento: One team (NBA) that has been anemic for 15 years. Chances to get the A’s and Raiders in the past fell through, had MLS lined up until key investor pulled out at the last second, heavily punches below its weight sports wise. Think Raleigh without any P5 schools but with the downsides of being near the Bay Area and their CSA lacking Stockton/Modesto.
- Salt Lake City: Two teams (NBA/MLS) and two P5 schools, might be held back by the belief system that the state was founded for in. Also is a comically large CSA consisting of most of the state.
- Charlotte: No explanation needed.
- St. Louis: Two teams (MLB/NHL) with a third (MLS) on a way; lost NFL twice in 30 years. Old market through and through, showed barely any growth in most recent census at just over 1%.
Any sort of area is going to be somewhat flawed. Looking at Nielsen DMA’s the Triangle is larger than all the markets I listed save Sacramento, Charlotte, and St. Louis and the next ranking list will probably leapfrog St. Louis as the Triangle was RIGHT behind them as of last year.
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The Triangle sport market is more affected by the 3 power 5 universities than it is by its population or growth.
The issue is that growth is bringing a lot of people who have no ties to any of the three and don’t want to choose sides. College sports balkanize each other, pro teams unite them as there are people who will not touch college sports with a ten foot pole.
This market can easily support a second team and I would dare say a third if you were going to make MLB and MLS your choices. Both have the upside of playing during the college dead period as well.
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I’m not arguing your points, and I’m not saying that you are wrong. However, the Triangle market is awash with major college football and basketball seats that play a major role in how the market is seen.
Maybe adding another half million people to the Triangle does the trick? 250,000? Who knows?
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And this would effect MLS or MLB how?
The competition for dollars. If you have season tickets to a college’s football or basketball games, you’re less inclined to buy season tickets for another team. The dollars are spread out here between three universities. Then you add in the Hurricanes. It makes it harder for a league to justify putting another team here.
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Thing is how much of this market falls into that bucket and is it greater than the number of people who don’t care about any of the three?
All three plus the Canes? Probably not exactly the biggest sports fans in the world, especially if you’re asking them to get really excited about some expansion MLS team.
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This is why I suggested in my post this morning that the Triangle needs to add more people before it’s going to be seen as a viable market for some of these expansion teams. I’d also suggest that Charlotte getting these teams first doesn’t necessarily discount the Triangle’s viability in the future. Ohio fields duplicate major league sports teams in two different markets already, and their market sizes are becoming increasingly comparable to our big two. Also, by the next Census, NC will have closed the population gap even more on Ohio. Florida has 3 NFL teams but not 3X the population of NC. Pennsylvania has 2 NFL, 2 NHL, and 2 MLB teams, yet NC is gaining on it as well. Put another half million in the Triangle, reshuffle the MSA and CSA to amplify those stats, and Raleigh becomes a very tempting expansion/relocation target. I just don’t see that sort of energy before 2030. If by then a redrawn MSA puts Raleigh-Durham north of 2.3 Million with a new CSA pushing 2.6, it will get interesting.
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No that can’t be because see y’all did care about MLS Steve Malik said on the day that he unveiled Downtown South and these are not my words he said this: “We has a study group with the community, and quite frankly our community doesn’t care about MLS, they just want more events Downtown. Would MLS downtown be nice sure, but quite frankly our community doesn’t care”. literally that what Steve Malik said.
The post kind of sums that up.
This quote is sums this up we could for MLB but the community needs to care.