Raleigh Stadium/Arena/Sports Discussions


#141

Yup, this cost vs. gentrification dilemma is definitely a paradox that stadium projects have to deal with, although local governments typically resolve this tension by being totally uninterested in the concerns of neighborhood residents worried about gentrification.

One of the benefits of the NCCIW site (and to a lesser extent the Cargill) site is that you would have a lot fewer concerns about gentrification because there is not currently any housing on those sites. The NCCIW site is big enough that you could put a stadium in the middle and still surround it with a pretty extensive “buffer” of new housing, and so the existing housing closest to the prison would not be as intensely affected by the stadium. Plus, local residents would probably be happy to see the prison knocked down. And, just speaking hypothetically, that’s an area where a stadium project could potentially be the winning bidder.

As for the other examples, it’s not that the AT&T Park site wasn’t expensive or desirable, because all land in around San Francisco is extremely expensive and desirable. It’s just that that was almost certainly the most reasonably priced option the Giants could have gotten. And, again, I know that PNC was put on the North Shore very specifically because land was cheaper there. (Both PNC and AT&T do demonstrate, though, that the most expensive land is not necessarily the best land for a baseball stadium, or vice versa. Notwithstanding their more reasonable cost, those were both awesome, awesome sites for a stadium.) Cincinnati, yeah, is probably the closest example to what you’re describing, but that too was built in the parking lot of the old stadium, which I gather wasn’t such a hot area at the time Riverfront was built.

The highly unusual fact that there is no freeway running through the heart of downtown is one of the many reasons why I love Raleigh. But, yes, there are many facets of the city that would complicate any efforts to build a downtown stadium. For one thing, Raleigh needs to make massive, massive investments in public transportation. Until that happens, any sports stadium is going to be car-centric, like PNC Arena is. I would very much like Raleigh to make such a massive investment, so if building an MLB stadium could be an inducement to get the city to do something it desperately needs to do anyway, that would be the proverbial two birds with one stone from my view.

I totally agree that putting on my baseball fan hat (figuratively or literally), I love downtown ballparks, and DBAP in particular.


#142

while I would love MLB expansion here, I think the chances are slim that it will happen. Raleigh might win over Charlotte, but I doubt it. Raleigh should be focusing on moving Hockey into the DT area, and getting a soccer team. In 20 years as Raleigh grows exponentially could we be talking about a potential team, that is more likely.

Or a existing team could move here, like the Rays, Marlins, or Athletics. The Rays and Athletics have both been linked to NC, and the Rays have a direct link to Durham.


#143

Good stuff. We should probably discuss this over a beer sometime :wink::beers:


#144

The inside info. that I have been told is years back Mr. Goodmon wanted to put a stadium in The RDU Airport area & name the team Raleigh-Durham but Mr. Bryant would not agree to waiver the mileage rule. I also was told that if MLB does come to this area , Mr. Goodmon would be given first choice of stadium location because of his good relationship with MLB Executives . Years back , Mr. Goodmon would not let Mr. Bryant bring a team to Raleigh , so he would not let Mr. Goodmon build his new stadium in the airport area . So Raleigh has been punished 45 + years on having a downtown baseball team !


#145

Bummer! Imagine if they joined forces in a dual ownership group? Add in some minority owners? Could be a more compelling case to MLB.


#146

for the record, the mileage rule does not apply to MLB teams, only MiLB (minor league).


#147

The Durham Bulls owner wanted to add another MiLB team to the area in the airport area??

  1. Not sure where you heard the rumor, but it doesn’t sound true or seem to make sense for the Durham Bulls to add another team so close and siphon off some of their fan base.
  2. If it was for a MLB team, I doubt the owner of the Mudcats could overrule that with the outdated minor league mileage rule.
  3. The area is very different now from 1990 and if the Mudcats wanted to move to downtown Raleigh they could. (35 mile rule very often ignored now)

#148

I would love that, actually!


#149

@ Mike ! I did not do a good job on explaining this situation ! Mr. Goodmon was not going to add a second minor league team to this area . After he bought the team from Miles Wolff & when The Bulls were playing at the old stadium location , that’s when Mr. Goodmon wanted to build his new stadium at the airport area for a Raleigh/Durham Team .


#150

Oh ok thanks for the clarification! And what a dumb idea to move the Durham Bulls from the DAP in downtown Durham to the airport. Glad that idea was blocked!


#151

While Miles Wolff owned the Bulls, Steve Bryant bought the Mudcats and wanted to move them to Raleigh. Miles saw that move as major competition for his franchise as many of the Bull’s fans come from Raleigh. Miles Wolff got minor league baseball to enact a minimum 35 mile rule between franchises. Steve Bryant still wanted the team in the Raleigh area, but because of the 35 mile rule, he was force to put them in Zebulon. You can thank Mr. Wolff for no downtown Raleigh baseball (even though I do believe Mr. Bryant wanted to put the team in a proposed stadium by Carter Finley Stadium).
When Mr. Goodmon purchased the Bulls, he proposed moving them to a new stadium off of Page Road near RTP so that the team would be closer to the Raleigh fans. Durham did not want that to happen, so they built the DBAP in downtown Durham to replace the DAP.
That is the best that I can remember as to what happened.


#152

Yes, that is my understanding too. Here’s a recent article that touches on it.

https://indyweek.com/culture/sports/ever-shadow-durham-bulls-carolina-mudcats-the-triangle-s-minor-league-team-want-get-attention/

Now, I have pretty high confidence if Bryant wanted to move to DTR now, it would be acceptable.


#153

All the more reason to play ‘hardball’ just like Wolff did. Get Steve Bryant to move his team to the ‘Atlantic League’ and circumvent the stupid rule altogether. Most people that go to a minor league game don’t even know the players, much less whether its MiLB or any other ‘minor league’ team. Most of them don’t even pay attention to the game when they are there, unless some MLB guy gets pushed down to a minor league team for a few games…and even then the interest wanes. What people do enjoy about minor league baseball is its an inexpensive outdoor activity… with Beer! If Bryant moves the Mudcats downtown as part of the Atlantic League, in 3 years, nobody will know the damn difference. Goodman /MilB will be forced to agree to allow the Mudcats to move downtown as an MiLB team so at least creating a minor league ‘subway rivalry’ of sorts that could benefit interest in both the Mudcats and the Bulls…Otherwise, screw the Bulls!!!


#154

Lol, this is exactly right. Though, to be fair there’s a pretty healthy percentage of people at Major League games in this same category.

A Mudcats park near DT in Penmarc or Cargill would be an excellent addition. I think those are realistic compared to some of the other proposed locations. I would venture that 95% of people at Bulls games drive to the stadium, so I don’t think a downtown location is as essential as some might think. However, a new district with a stadium at the center would give that area something of a new identity.


#155

@ Alan & Uncle Jesse , Alan I think that you pretty much have your post right ! Miles Wolff now owns a independent baseball team . I would love to see happen what you suggested UncleJesse ! 40% of The Atlantic League Players have playing time in MLB !


#156

Maybe a ballpark that would be shared by an Atlantic League team and the NC State baseball team. Similar to the Canes/NC State arrangement with the PNC Arena.


#157

State has their own stadium…a nice one


#158

@ CanesFan , I would love to see this happen ! As UncleJesse has said , NCSU does have a super nice stadium ! Even with this , I have sent a letter to NCSU Coach Avent with this opinion but did not receive a reply . State’s stadium seats app. 3,000 fans . When NCSU played UNCC in The Charlotte Knights Stadium , 7,400 fans attended ! I believe this could happen when NCSU plays UNC , ECU , Duke home games , so I included this when writing Coach Avent !


#159

Rumor has it the athletics department presented Coach Avent will plans to renovate / add 2nd level to Doak but he dismissed them and wants a new stadium out with Carter-Finley & PNC Arena.

Personally, I’d like to see a new stadium on Avent Ferry across from Mission Valley and for that area in general to become an urban walkable area.


#160

Wait he wants a stadium at the fairgrounds? God I hope that never happens.