But, it also begs the question: how much demand exists, and is it worth it? For years CLT has been craving service to Asia, and it just doesn’t make sense considering the distance and the economics. Dulles and NYC and ATL are all outliers for various reasons, but CLT and RDU just don’t make sense for East Asia.
The best bet for RDU would be to look at Dubai or Doha or Istanbul in order to leverage traffic to India. Charlotte will likely look to leverage something to Japan, but heavily subsidized and probably seasonally.
If China was open right now, RDU would definitely still be fighting for Beijing. Our demand is like 60,000 per year to/from China and about 30,000 to/from India. Middle East traffic is about 15,000 to/from. Japan is similar to Middle East traffic but is likely more suitable since it’s a little bit shorter and will be a lot quicker to connect throughout Asia
I totally get what you’re saying in terms of raw numbers, but how cheap would it be if it were direct from RDU rather than if they connected from SFO or LAX? The demand is there for the destination, but maybe not for the flight.
I wonder how much this question matters, though -especially for business-focused trips? Because for our Paris-CDG and London-Heathrow flights, for example, I’ve often found cheaper tickets with one layover than for direct flights. I, for one, don’t care about this as much when my employer pays for it (so I can focus on other trade-offs), but that does become an important difference if the money is coming out of my own pockets.
I’m assuming the proposed quarry project is definitely off the table here after this announcement? Will be interesting to see what kind of master plan they come up for these 150 acres.
Yeah it’ll be interesting to see what happens. I have some friends who love riding their bikes out there on the trails. Curious to see if this whole thing will be just considered part of Lake Crabtree park or if it’ll get its own name since they plan on adding a lot to it.
When the lease begins on Jan. 1, Wake County will immediately initiate a master plan for the site. Staff will remove nonpermitted footbridges and other structures, and once opened, visitors will be prohibited from leaving the leased property boundary, which is bordered by the creek.
Future development of the property could include spending $3 million to $3.3 million to rebuild 7 miles of trails; creating a maintenance trail for vehicular access; and adding a parking lot, composting toilet, small picnic shelter and drop-off/event area. The county estimates that ongoing staffing and maintenance of the park will cost another $3.3 million over those 10 years.
The trails are pretty good considering the lack of elevation and natural features, I just had no idea all these years I was riding on the airports property without permission! That’s a surprise.
Here is a quote of the future development :
“spending $3 million to $3.3 million to rebuild 7 miles of trails; creating a maintenance trail for vehicular access; and adding a parking lot, composting toilet, small picnic shelter and drop-off/event area. The county estimates that ongoing staffing and maintenance of the park will cost another $3.3 million over those 10 years.”
Looks like I might be mistaken with the quarry being off the table. The N&O had an article that provided a lot more details than the Wake County statement. Not quite sure if I’m understanding the complexities here, but sounds like Wake Stone is helping to pay part of the lease here? They included a picture of the area and looks like the new park is the top two parcels while the potential quarry is the bottom one.
The N&O did a story about the access issue back a few weeks ago. Part of the problem is that airports now must, under Fed Reg’s, lease at market rates. I am glad they worked it out. However, that previous story mentioned that the long-term $1 lease on Lake Crabtree park was coming up for renewal here in the not to distant future . . . The county won’t get that for a buck again.
I’d love to jump forward 5 or 10 years time and see how RDU is doing.
Considering Avelo is opening a base here, Breeze has hinted at the possibility, and Frontier is considering it, RDU could be far more a major airport in the future. Avelo basing 5-7 aircraft here by 2024 is already astonishing. Not to mention the significant presence from American, Southwest, and Delta who may also see potential in a base at RDU. Southwest has already said that WHEN they have the aircraft and crew, they will be adding more flights from RDU to the west coast. Then you have the European airlines where many are considering the possibility of adding RDU. As far as I’m aware, those discussions have included airlines like Aer Lingus, Virgin Atlantic, KLM, Condor, Lufthansa, and I imagine others. They’ve also openly expressed interest in Emirates flights, which would offer better connections to India and China. The master plan is alive now.
Great summary. You don’t have to be a visionary to see that 2040 Master Plan should read more like 2025 or 2030 at least. The expansion can’t come fast enough imo
From my understanding, the numbers they had in 2019, they were not supposed to hit until 2030. By then the airport would’ve added around 7 purely new gates. The airport expects to carry about 12.2M total in 2022, and believes they may hit 14M again in 2023. They planned on expanding T1 to become a 21-gate terminal because of this limited time frame which I believe is still being discussed.
They better ask the feds for some support now, Also the needs a people mover if a terminal 3 is coming and that little connector should be expanded to include the new regional rail line.
They soon will be no longer a midsize but a large airport probably will hit the top 20. At least at this rate, when Raleigh-Cary Durham-Chapel Hill MSA merges if that happens I know they’ll get funding.
Their proposals from the 2040 master plan workshops included stuff like a satellite terminal or a whole new terminal as options. I can imagine they would instead link 2 & 3 via tunnel. I am aware they have options for a rail, but they may find better usage by other systems. RDU might not need a terminal 3 quite yet, but terminal 1 expansion could be beneficial. We need another apron as well. They are building the new north aircraft apron or whatever but they will again lose space if they do any sort of terminal expansion.
Well Terminal 1 might need to expand to accompany United and Avelo hub areas there essentially operating bases which is another word for that. They need all the space possible, furthermore they and don’t have terrain problems like T2 does, so they might need the help all they can. And I was at the airport the other day it was extremely busy a lot of traffic, so the time is now. On my podcast i’ll talk about it, it is crucial we’re probably gonna be a top 20 busiest airport within the decade and the projections every one has been beaten. Now FedEx wanted to be a center here but NIMBYs complained like crazy over it, this time they’ll won’t have a say.
Just to make it clear for everyone, RDU’s authority is not bound to the master plan workshops; they’re expected by the FAA to follow the final Vision 2040 plans. Some of the earlier concepts included ideas for a third terminal for commercial passengers, but they were thrown out in the process of coming up with a final, preferred alternative.
It’s this final Airport Layout Plan that RDU has told federal regulators that they will develop. If they want to make any substantial changes, including an addition of a third terminal, they’ll have to waste time with reapplying for another new plan.
Both for expanding terminals 1 and 2, we need more space for planes to park overnight so that they can prepare for early flights to leave RDU first thing in the morning. That, among other reasons, is why RDU’s working on expanding its aprons; they’re offsetting that loss in parking spots due to construction that you’re talking about.
It’s illustrated as a rail corridor, but you could easily repurpose it for an APM (automated shuttles) or BRT lines too. I wrote this summary of Vision 2040’s rail provisions before, but it might’ve been from before you joined us on these forums.
Well it doesn’t mean they will build it or anything but it means they are open to the idea. T1 also wasn’t expected to expand more than like 13 gates but they modified the plan in 2020 before Covid where they proposed a 21-gate terminal there. The FAA said they need 7 new gates by 2030 and this might be the way they need to take to get them with the delay on T2 expansion.
