Did she say for what specifically they’re having trouble getting votes? For closing South Street and locating the amphitheater there? Or for the project overall?
Years ago??
As far as I am aware, the plan to close Lenoir was only made public early last year. The alternative to close South instead only went public, when, last month? If they’re willing to change gears at this point and close South instead of Lenoir, why would it be so catastrophic to look a bit further south?
With Cabarrus and Hargett both closing at the tracks in the near future, closing either South or Lenoir here will come to be regarded as a mistake.
Is there a reason Council can’t table the issue for a month while the architects try to figure out if it can fit below South? Or, if a 7,000 seat amphitheater is not possible, how big of one can fit there? And would that reduced size still be big enough?
If it’s really not possible at all, I can accept that - but I’d like to hear an explanation of why. In that case - I do prefer the newer plan of closing South over the earlier plan closing Lenoir - but so far I’ve not seen one drop of acknowledgement that a “third way” has even been thought of or considered at all.
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This is Raleigh. Table something and its 100% dead. Doesn’t matter if plans weren’t made public until recently.
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Ok, maybe we need to calm down here… while some things are sent to “growth and natural resources” to kill them, other things are legitimately sent back for good reason, with the full intent to consider them again - and come back improved.
I think it’s a mistake to think the first proposal on the table is always the best, and that it can only go downhill from there.
I believe the funding is already in place for the convention center expansion, so as long as council approves, this is happening full stop. A delay of a few weeks or a month is nothing. A rounding error.
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We just talked about the project in general. I’m not sure if the specifics but my limited understanding is that it’s approval for the road closure. Not sure about funding or other facets.
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According to the lady that I talked to, it seems like it’s the project overall (not including the Convention Center).
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Well I was just talking about the city council approval being up in the air. I don’t know what else may be, but without the council’s approval, the whole thing is basically in jeopardy
Maybe Raleigh can just bicker about it some more and then Durham can take it from us?
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Yeah that’s what I meant. I put CC for convention center but forgot people use it for city council. And I meant to reply to @brineer but I was tired last night lol.
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RHA “a cornerstone of Downtown Raleigh for 14 years (that long 
), has showcased 400 performers and hosted 51 concerts this season… Instead of playing political football, let’s pivot towards national prominence. Think of the City of Durham and its past decision to build DPAC, which became a top 6 performing arts center in the U.S.”
- Marcus Jackson on LinkedIn
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“mixed reactions” but basically no one is particularly upset about it happening in the article except some self anointed “activist”
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I honestly hope the NIMBY people don’t screw this up for the entire rest of us. I just want to shake people sometimes. One of the most positive things for downtown Raleigh and all we get are a bunch of 
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There are a lot of problems with closing the street…
I wish they’d go vertical with the convention center and rebuild RHA where it is
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Just curious, and for the sake of discussion and keeping in mind all perspectives, what are the “a lot of problems with closing the street” that haven’t been addressed by the proposed plan?
They are keeping pedestrian/bike infrastructure around the the proposed amphitheater location, and they are keeping cars in mind with a proposed outlet just south of South St to reconnect back northbound. I know with the future closing of Cabarrus at the tracks will present a new set of issues, but what else is there in regards to closing South St isn’t taken into account?
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I too was skeptical about the street closure, but this new proposed “Slip Line”, or as I call it , “Re-Connector”, to McDowell is likely to handle that issue. I think if that’s paired with a well-done upgrade and/or widening of Lenoir to handle additional traffic–which is inevitable–then it can work. (Example: They may need to widen Lenoir to have additional lanes so traffic doesn’t back up to turn left on Dawson. Dual-left turn lanes are very likely gonna be needed.)
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I’m not sure where this extra thru traffic is coming from. I walk this area often and never see much demand on either street. The last thing I want is for the city to build wider streets in downtown Raleigh.
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I couldn’t make it but can you add more from what you saw about this? This was really my thing. On non-event days, I felt peds/bikes still need to go east/west on South. Close it cars all day, fine with me.
However, if Lenoir gets some serious bike/ped like a wide path with separated bike paths, that could convert me.
As usual, everyone thinks they are traffic engineers and this all has to do with the movement of cars. It’s certainly an issue as people need to GET downtown to spend money and go to shows but I’m not convinced that people will figure it out. There’s honestly more parking along Wilmington Street that I’d love to see them direct concert traffic over there for easier in and out than everyone descending on one location but I’m not a traffic engineer.
It sounds like we need to start talking about this move to Dix more seriously though. If they axe the downtown amphitheater and move it to Dix, I’m just not sure that’s going to be in the best interest for downtown. Those quotes from the N&O article seem to indicate that mayoral candidate Janet Cowell wants it at Dix so this has me pretty concerned.
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Putting the amphitheater at Dix would be bad for Dix Park, louder in Boylan Heights and a disaster for small businesses downtown. I can’t imagine a city leader not understanding this. Very short sighted
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I live nearby, use South street a lot, and my first reaction was 'hell no." But I honestly think the slip lane is a real solution. It’s not ideal, but when I think about losing Red Hat and the traffic it brings to the local business that I want around (yet can’t support every night of the week) I would accept it. I really do think the slip lane is the critical peice for me. It’s no done deal. But make it a done deal and I’m in.
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From talking to the RHA folks, the plan is to have, what they referred to as, a type of parklet that runs around the southern portion of the proposed amphitheater. I specifically asked if this would continue to support pedestrians and bicyclists, and they said yes. I believe the first image that @GucciLittlePig shared above was the specific render for what part of this would/could look like.
There was a separate plan as part of the convention center expansion that would provide some more street upgrades on Dawson and Lenior streets in regards to the pedestrian experience, but I didn’t ask for more details around biking infrastructure. All I can think of with Dawson and McDowell is that for biking to work, those streets need to become less thruways and slowed down.
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