I generally think the city government has positive aims and is doing the best it can, but this feels like it might not be optimizing what will go on that lot. Just weird.
1 Like
“wrapped around an axle”. Best quote of the year and fully describes city government decision making.
2 Likes
I dont imagine anyone will out bid a 50% priemium over assesed. Doesn’t seem prudent. And if someone wants it that bad they can buy it from the city.
Don’t forget how expensive it will be to deal with that ass-best-toast. Seems the city is willing to waaaay over pay.
Best case we get a public/private patnernership and leverage this is into a really awesome development that anchors this mid part of New Bern BRT. I can imagine mixed use, lots of apartments, maybe even affordable condos to give this community a rung on the property ladder. Lots of small store units that encourage entrapunership. Good public spaces, inside and out, and of course a fountan. I also think this a good place for a monument.
7 Likes
If you are not forced into an artificial affordability handicap, $20MM would be fine for land cost….but the City has the ability to hamstring any private developer with burdensome “affordable units” Even if a private developer paid more than $20MM, they would be handicapped because you still have to go thru rezoning & until a new council is elected the current one will tie too many restrictions on affordability for the deal to make sense.
If CoS approves this you won’t see a development for a decade.
Lets hope not. Your axel anology was apt. Democeacy is a mess, always.
Sometimes watching this listserv is amazing. I think that the question that I want to ask is where do you want the people who are now living in the new one bedroom apartments up and down the outer corridors in and out of the city to live? (In case you don’t know what I am talking about, it is the hotels that are overrun by people who are moving here “for a better life” or those who have suddenly lost the housing that they had (probably in the surrounding neighborhoods) who had been renting because that is all that they could afford until their landlords (who didn’t keep up the property) sold out to high bids for new housing that many of you in the past have told me is what was needed for supply and demand and would then create the affordable housing that is desperately needed in Raleigh and across the country.
We can’t all live in “luxury apartments”. Opportunity Zones were not created just for people with money and higher wage salaries. I retired on what I thought was a decent salary after working for the Legislature for over 25 years. Literally can’t afford apartment rent today and definitely can’t afford to purchase a home (even after selling the one that I now own) and I am a 63 year native of Raleigh.
This is not about “not in my back yard” or 'yes in my back yard". This is about all of us who live in Raleigh (all of the humans) needing decent housing at prices that our jobs/careers/businesses can afford. Bus Rapid Transit is not being created for those who have been living here because the bus system was originally created to take Black maids from SE Raleigh to the homes of the white people in North Raleigh or ITB to clean. The routes haven’t change much. The routes being planned now will not help those who can’t afford decent cars now nor will they help those living in the apartment/hotels. They won’t help those who are living out Rock Quarry Road where apartment homes are shooting up rapidly in what used to be woodland.
Affordable housing for those making 80% AMI (average median income) is for those with salaries around $75,000 which is what I retired at in 2011 and my retirement income is 3/4 of that before health insurance ($700/month) comes out. The elders who retired 20 years before me may have their houses paid off, but their other expenses continue to climb - especially their property taxes and it is definitely a stretch for many of them who also have health issues due to aging and health needs.
Many of these folk had to save for years to purchase homes and were only able to purchase in SE Raleigh because of covenants that restricted allowing Blacks in neighborhoods all over Raleigh. The land that was platted in SE Raleigh - particularly that in today’s most desirable neighborhoods - was platted where Freedman’s villages were located and the plats were generally tiny so that formerly enslaved people could be leased tiny houses by white real estate investors who were making money hand over fist on properties that were 1/10 the size of what they were willing to live on. Poor whites also lived in these same areas but were not held back from moving out as they made more money.
The issues we face with housing here in Raleigh and elsewhere have much more to do with the systems of housing that were set up almost 200 years ago and that is why you see many of the things in these neighborhoods today. Some of this also occurred because of Urban renewal which occurred all over Raleigh - pushing out those families least able to fight back because they had no political or economic power. The Smoky Hollow of today housed over 160 families in the 1940s until they were pushed out to create Capital Boulevard. Oberlin Village was cut in half by what was a one lane Wade Avenue (which wiped out the 4 block radius of families in the San Domingo section) to create part of the highway system in the 1950s. 4th Ward was wiped out in order to build the Dawson - McDowell connector (planned in 1950s and put into place between 1965-1975) and those families, churches and businesses also had to scatter - several hundred - out to the Biltmore Hills/Rock Quarry Road/Southgate area to accommodate that.
Know what you desire to see ends up being built on the backs of Black and poor people who bear the brunt of losing places to live so that those with money can have what they want. And be consistent in what you want to see in YOUR backyard. Be thankful that none of the people who get pushed out are your family members and friends - or your businesses or ways that you make your livelihood.
6 Likes
I would just ask what’s the alternative given the current course we’re on? I don’t think anyone would want Raleigh to be a less desirable place to live and you can’t stop people from moving here.
The only way forward at this point is to flood the market with supply, and it’s almost impossible to get a developer to build affordable housing because that doesn’t financially make sense. Also if development comes to a neighborhood, no one can stop individual landlords from taking advantage of that and raising rents.
I just can’t see a scenario where building more apartments is a bad thing. These places are usually packed from the day they open.
I really am sympathetic to the people in minority groups being forced out. I think it would’ve been great to have had programs in 20-30 years ago that would’ve allowed them a quicker path to home ownership in those areas so they would at least benefit from this. But when the alternative is just even more sprawl with apartments out in Wendell and further, I can’t think that building more apartments in the downtown area is a bad idea, even if they’re labeled as “luxury”
3 Likes
You know, I think you’ll find plenty of people, myself included, that agree with you. I’ve read the history of Raleigh and I’ve talked to people who mention the same points you make. I agree and I hear you.
But at the same time, is the current course we’re on the right one? I think you’ll also get a lot of people who think it is not. So if we agree that something has to change and the longer we delay, the worse it gets, can’t we try and talk solutions?
I like @CTT’s take. What is an alternative? The city is trying SOMETHING and the best path forward is to try it and continuously iterate putting the city’s residents in a better situation than before.
My perspective is that equity has never been such a focus in city planning than it is today. I’m hopeful that the plans being made do have equity as a key driver and that over time we’ll start to see less people facing the hardships they do today.
The challenge is that these things take time. For more immediate relief, I imagine we need a huge infusion of cash from the state and feds to help out with respect to housing.
I generally lean optimistic though so we’ll just have to wait and see.
18 Likes
Affordable housing for those making 80% AMI (average median income) is for those with salaries around $75,000 which is what I retired at in 2011 and my retirement income is 3/4 of that before health insurance ($700/month) comes out. The elders who retired 20 years before me may have their houses paid off, but their other expenses continue to climb - especially their property taxes and it is definitely a stretch for many of them who also have health issues due to aging and health needs.
^ @CC1321 This is why I am actually petrified to retire, no less early retire. It’s like our dates of retirement are the peak and it’s all financially downhill from there.
Our societal systems have a long unfair history as you describe in the rest of your post, but the undergirding of our culture nearly demands constant work for most of us, and this is especially true for the vast majority of us who have 0 pension waiting for us from our employers when we stop working…because, let’s face it, how can we call it retirement when there isn’t a pension?
I think that there is going to be either an enormous elderly workforce in the coming decade as GenXers find that they can’t afford to retire, or there is going to be desperation among a fast growing elderly underclass of folks who were previously self sufficient.
As you state, getting your home “locked down” with full ownership is a mechanism that can help thwart future desperation, but I think that there are going to be a lot of folks reaching 65 with hundreds of thousands still outstanding on their mortgages, and those who have been lifelong renters will be particularly vulnerable to escalating housing costs.
In the end, I don’t think that market forces alone can solve these problems because the market will bend toward profit and the desires of those who are still earning.
3 Likes
Isn’t it incredible that the US is in $30+T in debt and with all that spending we have terrible social services
4 Likes
You gotta wonder if someone at the city is like “I knew we should have offered $15MM”
5 Likes
Exactly! they positioned themselves to not allow others the chance to even bid. How stupid, but we must build affordable housing no matter the cost to tax payers, because have you seen the cost of living in Raleigh? Because no one is doing anything better, and something is better than nothing, round and round we go.
My favorite part, “without discussion”
If the city turns around and builds another suburban style, car oriented, low density community like Walnut Terrace here, I’m gonna scream.
2 Likes
With the prominent TOD for the BRT its hard to imagine they could be so foolish. I hope they used their political power to buy in order to sell quickly with conditions. I really don’t want the city to manage this project like the Moore Sq / City Market project
6 Likes
They almost can’t do that. You have a huge call for affordable housing, a city-initiated rezoning for TOD (which this property falls into), and the property is literally on the corner of one of the BRT stations. Plus, I would think, to a certain degree, with a bid that high, you would need some decent ROI numbers so I would hope we get houses in the hundreds, not tens here.
Having said that, for what my voice is worth, I imagine we’ll follow the progress right here and for me, living so close to it, I’m all over advocating for higher densities here at all the public meetings/surveys that are sure to be coming up.
18 Likes
I assume it will be another RFP process similar to the Moore Square sites. The purchase is basically just a middle step that lets them have control over the end product.
9 Likes
i can recall in the 80s that as CAT transformed from partial-private(cp and l) to solely public busses, routes went through neighborhood streets…brentwood being one of them, longview , quail hollow as well…rather than solely on larger roads. not many maids as i recall on the busses then. but the bus was convienient. fwiw. i guess all cities start slapping roads in new areas as they grow. i think avent ferry built a berm in front of many houses on it as it expanded. north hills tore down many lower cost apartments to reach where its at now…many displaced weren’t black folks. I’m not sure if raleigh is unique in that. as i have read in what may be considered a contrarian POV in another listserve is that central work areas are diminishing and in cities where you ‘sprawl out’ is where property costs have stayed the lowest. downtown now i think is the most dense part of town even if smokey hollow itself doesn’t house as many as in previous decades…and quite expensive.
where is the concentration of employment for folks in wendell? additional biotech in eastern wake county? an amazon distribution center that keeps commutes from entering the raleigh city core?
and as many do…relocation. “The average Roanoke home value is $243,602 , up 6.6% over the past year.”
branford marsallis played here recently, a small symphony orchestra, greenway along the roanke river, new cancer center being built, pretty mountains and trails.