Yep. I really think at least one of these needs to be shifted to Clark or Wade. Guessing they won’t make any sort of move until they get initial numbers on the new route. But the 4 is way too slow currently and would be helped greatly by shifting off of Hillsborough.
3 Likes
4 Likes
[This is just a general response to yours and Dylan’s photos, but]
I find it to have a form of dismal beauty, but can’t see how this particular creek could be a romanticized waterfront lined with shops and businesses. Looks kind of…sad and murky? The lining land use could definitely be better than what’s there now but is this something people would actually want to see? Could Crabtree Creek really become a new “destination district” in “midtown” outside of those who already use the existing greenway, especially when the flooding gets that bad? I forgot how swampy the creek environment feels. I’d go for a jog here and embrace the outdoors, sure, but not really sure it’s a location/sight I’d go out of my way to overlook from a restaurant patio or anything.
Edit: sorry, I just realized this is quite off topic for this particular thread
It’s definitely particularly murky because that was mid-flood! They’d just need to spruce up the edges as part of the project. A few good examples of urban waterways are:
Reedy River in Greenville, SC
San Antonio River in San Antonio (which definitely gets murky in rainy weather)
Central Canal in Indianapolis
And just for fun, Cheongye Creek in Seoul
9 Likes
The kicker for any ‘entertainment’ waterway is going to be infra$tructure to both hold the creek in its banks which then prevents / protects it from some of the erosion based silt that literally muddies the waters…
Remains to be seen if we’ll ever see this type of investment in Crabtree Creek (and tough to expect it’ll ever really run clear) through Midtown but I suppose it’s nice to dream like the examples above.
5 Likes
Maybe we should plan a downtown waterway so that the NIMBY’s in the PNC tower can have a view to look at and so that we can stop them from complaining about more tower construction?
1 Like
FWIW I was not impressed by the riverwalk in San Antonio. Smelled of chlorine and also gasoline from the gondolas passing by, and it felt rather fake and disneyland for my tastes. Mostly chain restaurants set up shop next to it with surprising deadzones in sections. The Alamo was cool though.
You could replace the riverwalk with a pedestrian mall with a tram line and it’d be 10x better.
1 Like
I loved it when I was a kid. Haven’t been in years though, wouldn’t be surprised if it could use a sprucing up.
when i rode in the early late 70’s and early 80’s a few were shot at, some were full of cannabis smoke and a few others had overweight gals wetting into fights. two million trouble free miles…wow
And there’s the 50ft riparian zone setback. I suppose the city could approve exceptions?
2 Likes
Tweets for thought.
9 Likes
Amsterdam was only on a car-centric trajectory for maybe 20 or 25 years (about 1950 through about 1970-1975?) before they swung the pendulum back in the other direction. So they hadn’t done as much damage to their cities. They’ve also been working on repairing it for much longer.
Our car-centric trajectory began earlier, before World War 2, and has continued much longer. We’re about to enter our second century of this. The pendulum has perhaps only slightly began to swing back, and so far the pushback has been massive.
We have a long road in front of us - to be honest, a much longer road than the Netherlands faced in 1975, with interests far more entrenched in favor of the car here by this point.
It is slow going, and sometimes it may feel hopeless, but it is absolutely critical that we don’t give up - no matter what!
9 Likes
If you are indeed interested in the topic of transit (which I assume everyone on this thread is), I’d recommend putting this discussion on in the background while you work today. Some key talking points include funding shifts, public perception, and land use. Genuinely encouraged to see that there are indeed people in NCDOT who are talking about this sort of thing. Just hoping they have the ability to sway the organization as a whole.
8 Likes
In response to a request from the Midtown Alliance City Council requested that Transportation staff provide routing and costs associated with an express transit service from Midtown to downtown. A presentation was made at the November 16 City Council meeting and several express fixed route options were discussed. Following the presentation, City Council requested additional options be researched and brought back for consideration.
Service design for the Midtown service, at a minimum, would provide opportunities for travel to / from the Raleigh Convention Center (RCC) and the Museum of History and Museum of Natural Sciences in downtown Raleigh. It would connect downtown, Wake Forest Road and St Albans Drive near Duke Raleigh Hospital where multiple hotels provide accommodations for RCC visitors. The proposed service would then proceed to Midtown where additional hotels and destinations could be served.
http://go.boarddocs.com/nc/raleigh/Board.nsf/goto?open&id=CACSEV6FF4C3
8 Likes
Looks like this is an update to the midtown-downtown shuttle idea that City Council talked about last November. To be clear, though, the study that City Council requested seems to be more focused on on-demand/microtransit services:
Also, we’re already set to expand frequent, all-day buses to this area (budgeted for FY2026) AND we could branch off the Capital Blvd. BRT route to this area (that study should get started in the same Feb. 1 council meeting). This shuttle service would be added on top of all of those future buses, which could explain why they’re not thinking of adding even more buses.
2 Likes
I have no idea what this route would look like but I am going to read between the lines and speculate about the motivations behind it.
It is probably one of those cases where everybody would be better served by bumping the frequency of the local route rather than running a separate express. For these distances, A service that runs every 15 minutes but takes even 10 minutes longer, is probably better than a separate local and express that each run every 30.
Boosting local service doesn’t achieve segregation, though. I’d guess the Midtown Alliance is aiming for an exclusive route for elites circulating between DT and NH away from the unwashed masses on the local buses. That those elites wouldn’t ride a local bus, but they would ride a (possibly branded) route obviously meant to serve them only, and not the “usual sort of people who ride the bus”.
If that is what’s going on here then no thanks. Let’s focus these resources in getting the frequent network from the transit plan up and running.
14 Likes
#BizTravelSegregation
They should take this effort and use it to get the 8 Six Forks off of St Mary’s and Lassiter Mill. That route frankly defies logic.
The transit plan has the 8 moving to Six Forks, Atlantic, and Capital, with 15 minute frequency - which should probably both provide a faster trip downtown, and put buses within reach of more people, than the 8’s current route through leafy, wealthy single family neighborhoods.
The Midtown Alliance should be pursuing this, not some useless “Downtown North Hills Express Circulator Shuttle” nonsense.
Don’t try to create something that’s “different from and better than normal buses”.
Just make the normal buses better.
(the end)
9 Likes
I’m surprised that they’re taking so long to reroute the 8 (and to a greater degree to launch the proposed 14 that would take the full length of Atlantic to a unknown terminus) when as it is Atlantic is a gaping hole in the bus network that fell through the cracks for so long. Especially with the growth of housing along Six Forks and the relocation of the Post Office from the Kroger carcass on Six Forks to Atlantic. To be honest that should be expedited more than some of the other repacks that are on the table.
1 Like
Jesus Christ almighty these fools are emulating a stupid apple product announcement. This is silly.
1 Like