True, just like when the cafeteria was the Village Theater, later a twin theater.
Yeah, I meant additional parking beyond what the hotel would use ā e.g., planning ahead for taking an additional chunk of surface parking offline.
And yes, the parking aisles alone arenāt sufficiently large to redevelop on their own. Any redevelopment would, like the hotel, have to demolish both retail space and the parking in front. It would be most efficient to redevelop an entire block, or at least half a block.
1 Like
Is it theoretically possible that no additional parking is needed? By developing areas in and around the Village District with higher density, could the retail component become increasingly vehicle-free over a decade or more?
The city is doing a commendable job of making driving less convenient downtown, which should be offset by higher density development and alternate transport/walkability. Initially, this may seem counterintuitive, but by prioritizing pedestrian-friendly environments over accommodating automobiles, thriving spaces can emerge. Preliminary data from NYCās congestion charge serves as a somewhat relatable example, illustrating how reducing car dependency can still foster a vibrant environment.
6 Likes
There arenāt zoning requirements, but the retailers definitely will still want on site parking (and specify as much in their leases).
1 Like
Iām aware that there is not zoning requirements and the tenants will ask for parking, but the shopping center owner could reposition the property for higher and better use by utilizing the land with great density. Itās not an easy or quick process, but your initial statement that additional parking will help Village District serves to merely encourage car usage. A decade ago I would have said it was suicide for a retailer to take away parking, but as I visit places like in Coral Gables Miami that have walking districts, the retail tends to thrive if the area has high density.
Trust me as I split my time with Miami; there are a lot of folks driving (their very expensive cars BTW) to parking garages and valet services in Coral Gables.
I agree that creating much more density around shopping districts doesnāt increase the demand for parking 1:1 per units, but parking demand isnāt going to go away. The folks who drive to the Village District will continue to drive to it no matter how much more density is built around it.
Based on how Raleigh is today, itās an unrealistic goal that cars are going away, but it is realistic that we can be thoughtful about developing in such a way that either slows the growth of miles driven per resident or reduces it overall by giving many more people many more options that they can access by foot.
6 Likes
No question that the economic arc of what is now The Village District will involve turning a block at a time inside out and going vertical.
But that involves timing leases and a ton of other variables in addition to the desire to do so. Itās complicated.
However in the meantime the peripheral edges are now 10+ years into densifying. The apartments where I now reside replaced a few two story office buildings constructed post-war that in turn replaced single-family houses on Oberlin.
My wallet supports the 100 businesses that adjoin us and we do not own a car. However the parking lots here are always full. Itās a destination for those that dine and shop.
Next generation will more easily accept decks as the core six blocks redevelop. But they have a good thing going now and will probably just nibble for the short term as they did with the hotel and Berkshire.
7 Likes
āNobody goes there anymore. Itās too crowded.ā
5 Likes
What Iād suggested was adding structured retail parking as part of the hotel, so that surface retail parking could be removed. Net retail parking would not have changed.
Weāll see if the Camden apartments allow retail parking in the new garage, which is next to the library garage.
Iām more interested to see if the Camden residents walk to Harris Teeter. Unfortunately, I think that many will continue to drive. Camden should give each new resident a rolling grocery bag as a move-in gift.
4 Likes
Yes, this is the way.
To redevelop, they will have to go block by block, and find a way to shuffle retailers around in the process. Not sure exactly where/how that will start, it is all but inevitable.
3 Likes
So far they have nibbled at a couple of the corners of the six-block core with 5+ story structures that provide their own parking with wrapped decks.
The Berkshire apartments replaced some low-rise retail/office at the corner of Clark and Oberlin. And The Oberlin hotel replaced the theater/cafeteria building at the corner of Smallwood and Woodburn.
Opposite diagonal corners with minimal impact on the remainder area other than introducing walkable wallets to the customer base.
Could continue in that strategic manner for a while before taking on a whole block or half-block.
EDIT: Looks like The Berkshire site involved an LLC that gained control of that corner in 2004. So not the main development entity for the Village District.
1 Like
Iām sure some will, but Iām sure that there will definitely be a higher than average amount that opt to walk there (compared to other apartments). It would also depend on convenience. If parking gets bad enough at HT, then some have the option to walk. If large items are going to be used, then will probably be the choice. I biked today to Whole Foods about 3.5-4 miles. I saw quite a few bikes at Whole Foods. Iāve been seeing a lot more people with ebikes and panniers overall so thereās definitely been a bigger amount of people riding other than for leisure. I mention that because Iāve been seeing people bike more overall closer downtown Raleigh and even a bit further out.
Iām sure walking environment also has something to do with it. Not that Clark is a terrible place to walk, but Iād be curious what the different feel would be of walking from Camden to Harris Teeter vs the Cardinal to Harris Teeter, or the condos at 400 W. North to Publix. If Clark had a similar configuration to the outdoor section of Streets at SouthPoint, Iām sure more people would walk. I mention that place because people will walk from inside the mall out to the end of the outdoor section.
The Village seems to do ok with the amount of parking they currently have; I wouldnāt see why they need extra parking. The current amount hasnāt been an issue so far. Businesses seem to do ok.
2 Likes
Before Publix opened, I regularly walked to HT and CV/TVD in general from my condo at The Paramount on Boylan/Johnson. I canāt say that I see too many folks walking to and from there with grocery bags, and thereās that huge apartment building just south of it.
Now that Publix is open, I walk there because itās just two blocks away, and I see more people coming and going from it on foot toting bags. Thereās just a different vibe in Glenwood South than in TVD. I still occasionally walk to Harris Teeter for weekly specials like the full sub special on Friday.
4 Likes
Pedestrian shopping at the grocery store is more of a going to market vibe. Shopping every two to three days keeps the haul volume and weight manageable.
Also we offload the cart to tote bags that can be carried on the shoulder (weighty items) or by hand (fragile/light).
$50-$60 per person can be easily carried.
Weāre home by the time others secure the groceries in the vehicle and maneuver out of the lot.
Also The Camden has The Fresh Market just past the library next door as an option for groceries.
5 Likes
I donāt think so - many of the surrounding neighborhoods (and significant parts of downtown) still rely on the VD for things like groceriesā¦and will likely always prefer to drive
1 Like
With the leaves down we have a much better view of The Oberlin hotel from our balcony than just the top peeking over the treetops.
And here is a hint of its view of the DTR skyline during the golden hour.
21 Likes
Feb. 28 update on the Oberlin Streetscape Project:
This project is nearing completion! Contractors are resolving water pooling issues around bus pads and bike lanes. They will start applying thermoplastic pavement markings as temperatures increase. Crews are also finalizing traffic signal installations and signage.
cc @wanderer
12 Likes
Curious if the pedestrian crossings on Oberlin will prioritize pedestrian traffic, like the one on Lassiter Mill just south of Six Forks. Press the little button and within 10 seconds four lanes of traffic grind to a screeching halt, instead of waiting for the cycle to change. It makes what could be a bad pedestrian experience into a relatively good one and gives me a surreal sense of power.
6 Likes
Prioritizing the needs of one person over the needs of the many. You could be a dictator! 
3 Likes