2019 Fairview - Five Points

I agree. From the church tearing down houses to build parking, to the absolute bro vibe of the bars there…quite disappointing given the location and potential. I’ve never gone out of my way to go to 5 points (the intersection).

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The housing there limits the potential. I could see a shopping street there with single story buildings. For reference look up 7030 Austin St. Forest Hills, NY.

For a separate look, check out 2932 College Avenue Berkeley, CA.

I think the single story shops could be nice here. The problem is some houses would need to be torn town which I’m pretty sure is expensive and would require a lot of rezoning.

Edit to add:
I also like Lonerider being here. I’ve visited a few times and it wasn’t bad.

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Yup. The bars have always been a high school reunion from my experience - although that has been some years ago.

I also think a roundabout would be a better setup than whatever the hell is happening with that intersection. The first time I approached it from the west side of Fairview trying to turn through to Whitaker Mill I got crippling anxiety when the light turned green bc cars were still flying all around. I ended up just sitting through an entire light cycle with horns going off and eventually just ran a red and got the hell out of there.

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Something like they did at the corner of St. Mary’s and Brooklyn would be nice. Overall I agree that Five Points is ripe for some densification, but usually these are the types of neighborhoods that fight everything and win more often than not.

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Developers (the local ones that know the lay of the land) are terrified of the blowback they’ll get on any rezoning. And rightly so. If you tried to put anything bigger than 2 stories in you’d get 50 written complaints faster than you can say “let me speak to your manager.” So why even try. It’s a dumb situation but the incentive structure is difficult

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Especially with the historic, and very cool and culturally important Rialto Theatre there. Five Points should truly be a destination…

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@GucciLittlePenguin and I saw The Death of Stalin there early on in our courtship. It was a lot of fun. Unfortunately dinner beforehand at The Point sucked. I’m happy Lonerider is there now, definitely an improvement. But I still almost never find myself going to Five Points intentionally. It’s such a cluster…

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I’m a big fan of Lonerider. Service is great. I’m there at least once a week. $1 off pints on Wednesdays.

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On my list of places to visit for sure. I am back in June for my nephew’s hs graduation, I’ll try to be there on Wednesday and we’ll go.

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Totally agree on the roundabout bit, although naysayers might argue that since it’s still a state highway at that point (70), a roundabout wouldn’t be appropriate. I’d counter that it’s a residential area, so slower traffic is a good thing. Plus, traffic grinds to a crawl a few blocks further south at Peace anyway (even though 70 splits off before then).

I sketched out a rudimentary idea of how it could work, allowing for a return to two-way traffic on Fairview. Imagine Fairview connectivity from Oberlin to Capital, buried lines and poles, decorative landscaping in the roundabout, pedestrian refuge islands, and no more awkward stalemate between Fairview and Whitaker Mill cars (one of my pet peeves of living on WM).

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Being a state / US route shouldn’t have an impact on it being a roundabout FYI. Great idea and nice concept! I think this could definitely work here, would need to check out the ROW and radius to make sure it can handle a 67’ truck.

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Actually when Hillsborough St in Raleigh and Chatham St in Cary built their roundabouts they both had to be removed from the State Road system. After construction was finished they were accepted back into the State Road system. Something similar might have to be done for here as well.

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Probably was due to funding since those were more so beautification projects.
If this is able to be pitched as a safety project, should be able to get it done with NCDOT funds and coordination.

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Thanks! I think I sent this to COR transportation at some point, but don’t remember if I ever heard back.

Re: big trucks, I wonder if a two-lane roundabout could work. I’m no traffic engineer!

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Knowing the DOT, they’d definitely want a multi-lane here. Not sure the exact volumes here, but you could probably do it with how you have it illustrated and add part of the inner radius as a raised truck apron so they can have more leeway.

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Roundabouts, like Diverging diamonds are the intersection and interchange of choice right now. As funding is available we’ll see more and more wherever physically possible. This could be a good spot.

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The big roundabout by the Bell Tower on Hillsborough used to have two lanes. It had to be converted to a single lane because NC State students and grads couldn’t properly figure out how to get through it safely.:grin:

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I’m not a big fan of multi lane roundabouts. They prevent people from being able to cross safely as there’s two lanes you would have to pass where the traffic is rolling instead of stopping (as this would remove the traffic lights). I’d be ok with a single lane but not for double lanes.

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Fair points. Countermeasure to this is having the crosswalk a little further back and having ped beacons