Why would we try to shame a property owner into not selling the land to the highest bidder? What are they supposed to do, take that petition to the store and use that to buy goods and services? It’s their land, they can sell it to whoever they want. If people really want to collect signatures to save this building, collect signatures of the U.S. Secretary of the Treasury, written on hard currency. Otherwise, let the owner do what they want to do.
Maybe there are some people who would be upset by this, and maybe they’ll vote. I kind of doubt it, but maybe. You know who else will vote, though? The 401 people and families living in these apartment units once they get built. I’m sure they’ll have opinions on whether this was a good project to approve.
The goal would not be to get the owner to abandon the development; it would be for the owner to reconsider tearing down the building and modify the site plan to preserve it. I’m also completely aware that petitions are seldom persuasive. But they do at least create a unified message of protest, and creating a fuss over a loss like this might make developers a little more hesitant to demolish buildings beloved to the local community in the future.
And I don’t think you need to convince anyone in these forums that a) the owner ultimately has the right to do whatever he wants with his property, despite how much the rest of us may not like it, and b) that the addition of housing/density is sorely needed, and a really positive point to this proposal. From my perspective though, building around the existing building – even if it means 350 units instead of 400 – would be worth the benefit to the culture of the neighborhood and city.
I’m not an expert on the zoning rules, but since the site is zoned for 7 floors can they add 2-3 floors at the Southeast corner of the building where its only shown at 4 floors? Or is the height everywhere dictated by the number of floors at the lowest spot? They can’t step it up at higher elevations?
I’d also be in favor of them asking for rezoning. Go up 12 floors in the parking lot area. So many options to work around the existing buildings.
The developer could leave the Goodnight’s building in place, and probably fit something like 370 apartments (with parking) on the remaining land instead of 400. The developer is being short sighted and irresponsible IMO, chasing absolute maximum profits from this project while not considering the potential harm that the backlash from this sort of thing might cause to the long-term prospects for development and densification in and around downtown Raleigh. Potentially killing the goose that laid the golden egg.
I’m also laughing at the fact that you think all 401 units will be filled in any reasonable time. These generic new apt buildings go up and remain half empty for YEARS because of the price point. Hell, there’s a generic apt block up in Cameron Village that’s had the “now leasing!” flag hanging from the side for at least 2 years now. Like everyone else is saying, completely reasonable to want the owner to sell with contingency that the developer preserve the existing structure and build around it. The building is NINETY TWO years old. Just because it’s designated historic by the Raleigh Historic Commission does not mean it’s not historic.
Seems a little less black and white than that. You can absolutely put 401 apartments on this property while incorporating a handsome historic structure in a city that does not have too many of them left. That argument of yours is the type that people who don’t like YIMBYs cite as a caricature when trying to discredit development in all forms.
Bingo. Building around this perfectly serviceable old building would retain some texture in a city that doesn’t have much of it. It’s not even dilapidated - by all appearances it is well-maintained and in good condition.
This may be a foregone conclusion at this point, given that ASR cases are administrative, and ex-post-facto zoning changes can’t happen after a site plan has been submitted - but I’d rather try to have a system that takes the binary choice between (1) attractive old building and a huge parking lot, and (2), 401 apartments in a nondescript, new apartment building, and adds a third option of (3) attractive old building and 370 apartments.
Presuming it’s in a good serviceable state, the building could house all of the community amenity space, the leasing office, and possibly some retail. I would love to see that happen.
Now that we know that the comedy club needs to find a home, where would everyone like to see it go?
In addition my previously mentioned SH2, I can imagine it going into the church space next to the MSFH if that could be had. They could replicate a vibe there.
And aren’t the new owners of the buildings on Fayetteville st (the Briggs building, etc.) going to keep at least their facades instead of tearing those completely down?
I worked for an apartment developer and would lease these developments up usually within 6 months to a year. They just keep those signs up to keep interest and still give 2 and 3 year old properties the assumption of new. Also, most downtown developments are well over 90% occupied. My assumption is by the time this development opens, COVID will be done and Raleigh will assume normal rental rates/occupancy. You can really call any property, anywhere and ask for a Market Survey and they will tell you all that you would like to know. It’s a courtesy in the biz!
Also, how do we know that the Goodnights owner wants to stay there? I am sure they are working out a hefty deal or the deal would not have been made. They might have known they were sitting on golden property and waiting for the right offer to come along?
I know we’re all downtown boosters but it would be cool to see Goodnight’s as an anchor of one of the newer entertainment districts popping up, maybe the Iron Works.
In reality, I’d settle for only saving the central building and not the larger one story building that’s actually on the corner of Tryon Hill and Morgan.
I do like the idea of pushing all of the parking against the RR tracks.
That would certainly be a win for the Iron Works, and the vibe is definitely workable, but that would move it further away from the center of Raleigh than its current location. Good thought though!
Gregg Sandreuter should incorporate these apartments into 400H and get that project off the ground. I love Goodnight’s and would hate to see it leave this location
Good convo to date, like most here, I’m all for density, but compromising density for the loss of distinct architecture is shortsighted. I’m okay with “Raleigh being boring” haha but Raleigh shouldn’t be bland. Anybody have particular ideas on actionable items for saving this beautiful old building?
The big problem is that the project meets the current zoning for the site. There is not much anyone can do if they meet the requirements. If they were asking for a rezoning, then more terms could be dictated to them.
