I support more housing and density in nearly every instance for the record. As someone who rented in DTR from 2012-2018 it sounds like you had something of a unicorn 5 years ago at that price point. I was paying $850/mo for a 2 bedroom in that same area in 2014. There are also plenty of places cheaper than The Platform today. Even at $1300/mo per room a person making ~$50,000 would be spending 30% of the income on rent which is considered a good benchmark for budgeting. There are also a LOT of young professionals making more than $50,000 which is why I said it is actually a pretty good deal for those people.
I do not think there is anything wrong with having higher end, new apartments even if they price out some part of the population. Being able to command higher rents is what leads to more multi family development, more supply and eventually lower rents overall. JMO
Itâs really 2 ends of the spectrum and while I totally agree with @Nosyarg, a more fair comparison would be something like the Lincoln or the L. Theyâre still ânewishâ compared to some of the one-off buildings that offer upstairs apartments or much older apartment complexes that probably have a limited future due to land values. Brand spankinâ new apartment complexes being marketed as luxury (even if they are really âluxuryâ) are always going to push, or attempt to push, the market up.
I wonder how many units Raleighâs Housing Authority owns and manages for low income housing. I noticed here in tiny Key West the Housing Authority has several properties they operate and after looking more into it, 590 units in total at the moment. Given the constraints of the land here and incredibly high property values coupled with a strong dependency for service industry, itâs nearly a requirement that low income housing is maintained. Otherwise youâd have a bunch of consumers and no service.
Of course itâs a bit of a different economic situation between here and Raleigh, butâŚ
So long as the NIMBYs donât have their way and ban all non single family zoning in the city, Raleigh has the room.
I think the city should step in and become a developer. Flood the market with rent capped units in dense nodes. If developers refuse to build to fill the 15000 unit deficit then the City has good reason to step in. Each one can fund the construction of the next one so ultimately a revenue neutral or positive project. Of course⌠there would be pushback from many directions.
Iâm glad that the policies regarding housing are starting to change locally and statewide. Raleigh and the other cities across the state need to start building triplexes, quadraplexes, etc. again Iâm order to keep NC affordable.
They can start right now with the Municipal building. Canât find tenants to fund an office? Make it residential then. Plenty room on that block for offices later. This can be a trial run.
For reference, personal income per capita in Raleigh was ~$66,000 in 2021, so $1,300/mo for an apartment would be ~22% of per capita income. And again, this is for one of the most expensive apartment buildings in all of the city.
Looking at affordability for service industry and lower income folks.
927 West Morgan on a spot check (area mentioned earlier) for an âolderâ apartment is ~$850/mo for a room in a 3 bedroom. ~15% of per capita income. Would be in line with budget benchmarks (30% of income) for someone making ~30,000/yr - the equivalent of a full time $15/hr job.
A 2 bedroom at the L is also $850/mo per room.
Not going to research but my guess is you can easily find something even cheaper in older stock.
The un-affordability of Raleigh and even Downtown Raleigh is greatly exaggerated on this forum. Plain and simple.
Horrible, horrible take, my friend. We - very real people - can attest to you that the rents are unaffordable for the vast majority of people we know. Youâre going by blind statistics; Iâm going by actual, lived experience. How many people that work all the restaurants, bars, and shops that you love downtown do you think can afford most rent prices in Raleigh? Youâre also using this example:
Which conveniently leaves out the fact that it requires a roommate. Not everyone has nor wants roommates, and us less wealthy folks shouldnât just be expected to be forced to live with roommates for forever just because we donât work in f**king biotech (no offense @GucciLittlePig) or techity-tech or whatever the hell these ultra wealthy folks that keep moving here do.
I had roommates once upon a time. It motivated me to find a better job/career. I also donât think everyone who works downtown needs to live downtown. Yes I get that some people donât have transportation but I do not believe that they are in the majority. There are so many townhome and condo type places all over Raleigh - they just arenât a prestigious downtown address. But I donât have a prestigious downtown address eitherâŚand Iâm in pharma.
Can you tell me what you consider to be âultra-wealthyâ?
Iâm sorry data upsets you, but if it is anecdotes you are looking for I know dozens of service industry people who live in and around downtown. Yes, most have roommates - also known as spouses or partners in many cases and their friends in others. I donât know whatâs wrong with that? Maybe a reset from covid but roommates, not to mention live in bf/gf, are normal and have been for decades.
I also have very bad news for you if you think that building nothing but 1 bedroom apartments is going to lower the costs of rent compared to 2-3 bedrooms.
I work in tech, and I agree. The tech job market is actually pretty shitty out here right now, and itâs even hard for us to find good jobs with good pay/benefits now. Iâve been out of college since 2015, so Iâm not entry-level anymore and I have a pretty good amount of experience but I still went on over 15 interviews this year (for positions that used to pay MORE 2-3 years ago, that I wouldâve been a layup for back then) that went nowhere, so I had to settle for a contract position until something better comes up. I truly think ChatGPT is really killing entry/mid-tier tech jobs right now. Which sucks cause itâs something I use almost dailyâŚso itâs simultaneously making my life easier and harder.
So as wages remain stagnant (and sometimes decrease) for industries like mine, somehow housing costs are going up atleast 10% each year. I donât care what your tax bracket is, or what political party you belong tooâŚwe should all be able to agree that this shit is ridiculous. I donât know what Iâd do if I hadnât purchased my home back in 2020.
It feels like people are applying a local lens to a nationwide issue - rent in desireable cities is really high compared to incomes across the country. Raleigh is only unique in that it was a sleepy Southern city until like 20 years ago, while complaining about rent has been a part of the New York / Seattle / SF living experience for decades.
You canât get a mixed drink downtown for less than $14-15 or most meals for under $20-25 per plate⌠Whisky Kitchen sells âCrispy Broccoliâ for $14. FOURTEEN DOLLARS. Their fried Chicken Sandwich is $17. And then the servers expect you to tip them 25%+ nowadays
Spending $200 out on a âcasualâ Friday night and then complaining rent about is perplexing⌠You canât park downtown for less than $15 a day⌠the downtown YMCA is one of the most expensive ones per month in Wake County (yet has the LEAST amenities and equipment/space)⌠everything in a popular metro area is 1.5-3x the price of smaller suburbs or townsâŚ
Have you seen the plans for most of the new apartments currently under construction or planned? The vast majority of new units are studio and 1br. It blows my mind that that many people can afford to live alone at those prices, but then I realize itâs a profit maximizing strategy.
Iâve always lived with roommates, and only for a brief period lived in a 1br (with my now partner). Itâs the only way I could live in the locations I wanted to live and still be able to save money. I think the proliferation of new studio/1br units is doing a disservice to young people and others with modest incomes.
That being said, I think the city really needs to do something to slow the rapid demise of naturally occurring (though slightly less dense) affordable housing while vacant lots or otherwise vacant property sits and rots. There needs to be some kind of incentive for developing these non-contributing properties or penalty for letting them sit unused vs taking down existing housing. Once all the vacant lots are developed, then we can talk about redevelopment.
Lol I can tell you us biotech folks definitely arenât the rich ones! My guidance counsellor failed me lol. I should have worked in finance or something.
For reference, personal income per capita in Raleigh was ~$66,000 in 2021, so $1,300/mo for an apartment would be ~22% of per capita income. And again, this is for one of the most expensive apartment buildings in all of the city.
So⌠Iâm not really sure about these numbers because they seem to contradict this:
Median household income in 2021 was $72,996
Median personal income in 2021 was $42,632
Median gross rent in 2021 was $1,237
Most people in Raleigh are making way less money than $66k.
Yeah itâs not that I couldnât afford to live here, or many other places in DTR right now, (although this is not the most expensive⌠not remotely). The issue is that I have no guarantee they wonât be $300 more expensive when I renew my lease⌠which is the case for many of them right now. A lot of them were a clean thou not long ago. Itâs not that we are Denver or Austin right now⌠but the trend is obvious and it will go that way guaranteed unless we do something about it.
So this one Iâm curious about⌠Maybe there is something here that I donât know. What naturally occurring affordable housing is getting gobbled up? Raleigh is not like a lot of cities in that it never had a huge population in its downtown. The number of residents getting displaced by new development is countable with your fingers. Compared to the thousands of units coming online I canât say Iâm sad. Most new developments ARE on empty lots or on unused commercial/industrial properties.
The issue is that rents are increasing throughout the city pretty much uniformly and pricing out a lot of long time residents. This has nothing to do with developments in the core, which are a small percentage of the total housing market. Itâs happening in Greensboro too and that city has not had the kind of downtown residential boom Charlotte, Raleigh, and Durham have had.
I couldnât pull median from FRED. Good find and I agree that median is a better measure. Iâm not sure how gross rent is calculated - or if ownerâs equivalent is included in that, but even using those numbers median rent would be 34% of median personal income and 20% of household.
As I said, earlier I am pro housing density and development in almost every instance and I find that to be the best solution. And it does appear we are doing something about it.
Raleighâs numbers are particularly strong when compared to all others on the list when one considers that Raleighâs MSA is less than 1.5M. All of those others are significantly larger.
) or techity-tech or whatever the hell these ultra wealthy folks that keep moving here do.