Bike Lanes in and around DTR

I hate cycling and am glad to drive to work instead.

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Not sure whether that was said in jest or seriously. In any case, that is a sentiment that you are certainly welcome to have but, anecdotally, is not a common one.

There are many people, including me, who are glad to have driving as an option, and even I would be very angry at the idea of my family being forced to give up our car.

But likewise there are a lot of people who feel trapped in a situation where, to them, driving seems like the only option, when they would prefer to have cycling available as an option for at least some portion of their trips.

The point I am making is that the main thing preventing a much larger number of people from cycling is safety, or more accurately, the perception of safety. That is an extremely easy problem to solve, with the caveat that for the solution to be easy, it has to come at the expense of motorists.

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Mark, I hear ya. Not surprised that every other city youā€™ve been to in the last 5 years is doing it better than us. When youā€™re not in the top 50 best bike cities that means that at least 50 other cities are doing it better than us.

As far as having another way to work . . .you should listen to the Inbound Raleigh podcast episode with Michael Moore - Raleigh Transportation Director. About the 16:15 mark he says he just wants to give people a choice in their transportation mode and let them decide what best fits their lifestyle. He hasnā€™t been on the job very long, so maybe give him time to prove that statement, but right now the choice weā€™re pointed to is car, car, or car.

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The draft final report of the Avent Ferry Corridor study was released earlier this month. I realize that Avent Ferry is not in DTR, but to the point of changing priorities and policies itā€™s worth a look.

Protected bike lanes on both sides of Avent Ferry from Western to Tryon are proposed.

Bicycle and pedestrian recommendations are on page 16. The report states that bicycle and ped infrastructure are key priorities for this corridor and that implementing the recommended redesigns will require reduced vehicular capacity and likely add delay and congestion during both AM and PM peak hours.

Of course this report is just a bunch of recommendations, but keep an eye on what happens here to see whether or not the city is serious about shifting priorities away from cars in at least some areas.

You can download the report here

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One interesting thing to me about the avent ferry report is how it proposes to accommodate the cycle tracks basically in place of the planting strips between the curb and sidewalk. For the segment between varsity and Gorman, that means the curb wouldnā€™t need to be moved at all, although it would have to be rebuilt at intersections and driveways. This is kind of similar to how many Dutch bike lanes are built but I havenā€™t seen anything quite like it in the US.

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For the record, from presentations Iā€™ve heard at transportation engineering conferences in the last year, it sounds like Charlotte is doing 10x as much in terms of bike/multi-modal infrastructure as Raleigh is. Just today I heard about a permanent cycletrack that is being planned thru uptown Charlotte (vs. the ā€œpilotā€ West Street Cycle Track here in Raleigh), a road diet on Stonewall Street that includes protected/separated bicycle lanes between Bank of America Stadium and the convention center, and a 20+ mile greenway connecting 2 sides of the city. Sort of a shame.

orulz, one thing that I hope we do going forward is something similar to what the downtown transportation plan tries to do which is prioritize different modes on different streets. There should absolutely still be streets to move mainly cars but not every single route - some should be geared towards transit use, some towards bike/ped. This is what cities like Denver and others are starting to come around to as a good compromise.

(Also, I listened to the Michael Moore Inbound Raleigh podcast too and while he said some nice things, I got the impression that the status quo is going to be maintained. He pushed back against the fact that we should be doing more in terms of cycling infrastructure because the modal split numbers donā€™t show itā€¦well if you donā€™t have the infrastructure, youā€™re not going to get more people not drivingā€¦)

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Have already listened to that podcast :slight_smile: Heā€™s a good speaker and ā€˜getsā€™ the situation. Not just the political and cultural one, but that the hard infrastructure already in place is impossible to work with. Capital Blvd cannot be biked on, ever. It also cannot be crossed between the beltline and downtown. Speaking of the beltline, there is hardly a safe road to bike on at all, that goes from inside, to outside the beltlineā€¦Lassiter Mill and Yadkin perhaps, but good luck getting those fat cats out of their fake-Porsche SUVs to bike to even REI. The other roads all were built for car access in and out of town, in high capacity, only. Not people. Not bikes. It is a long list of road related problems. Avent Ferry will be nice and all but itā€™s reactionary and at least 30 years overdue.

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Problem with Raleigh is that unlike strongly gridded cities like Denver, there are precious few roads that actually go from anywhere to anywhere else, and nearly all of the ones that do are choked with traffic. Occasionally you will find one that isnā€™t (Beryl, we love you!!!) But those are by far the exception rather than the rule. In Denver they have enough roads going in a given direction that they can choose one for bikes, one for pedestrians, one for cars, one for unicycles, etc.

My hometown of Asheville has it even worse because there are even fewer roads and the ones that there are, are very narrow, steep, curvy, and closely lined with development.

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Donā€™t forget Beryl! Itā€™s the best. Glen Eden isnā€™t bad, either. For North Raleigh, Yadkin and the Greenway are about it. Lassiter Mill is okay but the hills are a bit brutal.

I like to stay optimistic. I actually think that nearly any road can be made bike friendly. If you take away the outside lane in each direction on Capital, add a 4ft wide barrier, leaving an 8ft cycle track, and put a lot of effort into driveway consolidation and elimination (which they really need to do anyway), it could actually be quite passable.

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The lack of safe biking roads that go from inside to outside the beltline is extremely frustrating.

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I went to a presentation on the Avent Ferry corridor study last night. Apparently there is funding allocated to do the capital improvements to the road itself. I believe this means medians, bike lanes, sidewalks, etc.

The thing holding it up - aside from the normal process of running it through every committee known to man - is finalizing BRT. And this is how this is relevant to DTR. I donā€™t think weā€™ll see much of any progress on bike lanes anywhere in the city until BRT planning and implementation begin.

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Oh right, Beryl is the secret way to the Fair for ITBers. Glen Eden is actually pretty good and connects to House Creek greenway nicely. But again, it provides for those affluent NW ITB folks. Keeping poor folks locked away from the 'burbs (OTB) was the unspoken, unwritten, obvious at stakeholder meetings, goal and I contend its why the three best beltline crossings on foot or bike are across the NW arc (Beryl too really but thatā€™s a relic they easily overpassed along with the tracks) From the 50ā€™s through the 90ā€™s anyway. Itā€™s more complicated now with blighted 'burbs and many more affluent downtown areasā€¦/s. If we had Minneapolis or Seattle level bike infrastructure, Iā€™d buy an e-bike and never look back.

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Apart from really crappy weather, Minneapolis definitely has some good things going for themselves (and itā€™s pretty affordable).

Add myself to the list of Beryl Road users that I use to bike to work :slight_smile:

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This is interesting. I occasionally take all back roads from lake wheeler area (pleasant hills estates) to Cary for my commute, crossing highway three times (trailwood, Athens drive, and Chatham/Hillsborough) . Itā€™s slow but less frustrating. Anyways, I noticed some improvements on trailwood bridge over 440. They just installed guard cages for pedestrians so you donā€™t hurl yourself off into the great congested abyss. Looks like they are clearing the ROW and possibly adding wide sidewalks/bike lane over the bridge. Hurray! Except trailwood is literally a mountain backroad hidden ITB (because of wetland/floodplain constraints, and property values donā€™t support estate home construction there)

Can we get it over lake wheeler instead of trailwood for $#$&# sake!

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I was just mentioning how Trailwood wasā€™t even paved until the late 90ā€™s or early 2000ā€™s or so to someone. Seems like 1 in 5 NC State students lived out there somehow. Getting so fancy now.

If thatā€™s the case, then you also hate dense, people centered, and thriving urban environments. Cars are not a part of the fabric that makes a city iconic and vibrant. :woman_shrugging:

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Nope, I still doā€¦

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Although cars are even in cities like NY & London, they are never the priority & their use is very expensive.
While Raleigh doesnā€™t have the sort of infrastructure to support a truly car-less lifestyle in the way that NY does, we shouldnā€™t be prioritizing cars in our downtown in the same way that we do in totally car dependent environments. As the city center becomes more and more self sustaining, the shift away from car prioritization should continue. The challenge is to find that correct balance.

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This would seem less like a troll and more like a serious post if you explained your opinions at least a little bit on your last two posts. You are entitled to your opinions even if most of us disagree, but please try to actually contribute to the conversation so we can learn from each other instead of just offering sound bites to bait us into anger, etc. Raw opinions without explanation are of little use to anybody.

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I understand what he is saying. I will never ride a bicycle to DTR under any circumstances. Nor would I even consider riding the bus either. I like my car and I basically enjoy my car ride to and from work to DTR. I follow the conversations here about Bike Lanes and Buses etcā€¦ but on the most part I care little about them. I do understand the need for Bike Lanes and improved transportation alternatives but I am quite content if the process moves slowly forward in a well thought out way. I would much much much rather the commuter rail gets prioritized,

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