It’s just how it works. Sports are still a business. If a city cannot do enough to keep a team, even though they really deserve one, they will lose it. Sometimes they do get a team again, and sometimes they don’t. If KC isn’t willing to provide them with the approval of that tax extension, why not go somewhere else where the market size is bigger and they are willing to give you exactly what you want or need? The canes were stolen from Hartford, and in the long term, the city has given them everything they ever wanted and the fans have showed up when they didn’t in Hartford.
It is also worth noting, some cities find stadiums more valuable than others. PNC Arena has an economic impact of $5B since it opened, while others haven’t only hurt the city. An MLB stadium here gives us so much more. We have 3 college teams that would love to play games there, large youth programs, and the international/national events for it. USA baseball is headquartered in Cary, and this new stadium could bring major baseball events here.
The state/city/county is going to have to put in something if Raleigh/NC is going to get a team. That’s just a reality of getting an MLB team (or any sports team that comes and needs its own stadium).
That doesn’t mean they necessarily need to increase taxes on anyone, but it might mean they’ll need to capture a chunk of the Tourism Tax over a time period or potentially some of the gambling tax. That all has to be figured out.
MLB owners vote on the expansion franchises and relocations. Almost all of them have public/private partnerships with their governments, so its extremely unlikely they’d want to set a precedent of private funding. MLB also wants the three-way partnership to keep league stability (as best they can). They have a stake in the game, they also want the ownership group to have a stake and state/city to have a stake.
That said, there are unique ways to make this happen. For instance, Portland passed a bill where future tax on the players income would be used towards up-front stadium financing so they wouldn’t have to raise taxes on the public.
But no one is getting any team in 2024 without some sort of partnership with the government. That’s just the nature of the beast.
I will actively root against any team that relocates to Raleigh from a traditional market. Also, this practice of subsidizing pro sports with tax payer money and obsession with holding clubs hostage for brand new stadiums is only really a “business” practice in the US. I get why its different here than the rest of the world but these clubs are part of a city’s identity nonetheless and any owner who would move a club because they were denied tax dollars is not an owner I would support.
While there’s clearly a pattern of threats to city for public funding, what is your position on a city not supporting a team because they can’t fill the seats? What if an owner moves a team for that reason?
Imo, depends on if it’s an owner systematically wrecking the team’s relationship with its fans (suck it John Fisher and Oakland), versus a city declining against other cities and losing the ability to stay competitive or just never adopting the team (hello Hartford or the Atlanta Thrashers).
But I’m worried if we have competition from the other NC city, I’ll be harder to get state funds, not saying it’s impossible if we don’t have that competition form them well it’s guaranteed for us. I think the tourism tax of wake county will be the most realistic, without having to raise taxes here but they maybe NB-i from folks who use the annoying affordable housing card, or people living around there might complain, I’m worried about the council the next few years if they’re on that mindset of “no funds fund it yourself” we’re screwed. I can hope they agree to give up some money through that fund instead of raising taxes. I don’t know that state situation but Cooper is out next year what will the next governor do well he support it. We have state support then why are state senators caring? I just see some tough hurdles. I just hope there’s no opposition to city and county giving money to the stadium when they funded PNC was there opposition @Loup20 ?
My opinion is that there isn’t going to be a battle for MLB between the cities, but there might be a battle for funds. Tepper is about to ask for a bunch of money to upgrade BOA stadium, but MLB expansion being pushed back a couple of years helps in that regard. The major players here all want it in Raleigh, so unless something changes, I don’t see Charlotte really mounting any true opposition. The fact that you’d need to move the Knights out of downtown creates an increase in cost that not many ownership groups are going to be ok with.
I think there will be some hurdles on the funding, but I don’t think it will be anything that can’t be worked out. This area is very hungry for sports and Raleigh is very hungry for entertainment draws during the summer months. There was almost zero opposition on the PNC upgrades, in fact, people wanted the deal to get done to keep the Canes here. The same is likely with the BOA upgrades that are on the horizon.
And hope there is no opposition to funding this stadium where to be at the 2 places zoned for it. It’s seems easy said then done. But I hope people don’t have opposition and look at it as we’re building a stadium in the right place, they don’t think they being taxed for it.
Monkey paw prediction: By the time MLB gets around to granting a franchise the Triangle and Triad have converged into a single megalopolis. Expansion team ends up in Mebane or Burlington. They were very aggressive courting Buc-ees. Let’s see how they do with baseball. Mebane is Arlington to the Trangle/Triad’s Dallas-Fort Worth.
with kc or perhpas or some other established teams…i would think a familiar stadium (, ie cameron indoor) would be something to coalesce a fanbase around…maybe I’m wrong? if people cant get seats for the bulk of the season, ok sure…add seats or get a new stadium then. if KC isn’t having mobs outside trying to get in, just spruce the place up somehow. the latest corporation-name-new-area- somehow to me is off-putting.
Actually this scenario is not that far-fetched. Alamance County (bet. Chapel Hill and Greensboro) recognizes it’s been left out of the development conversation far too long and wants in on the action. Everyone thought the Patriots were crazy when they moved to Foxboro Stadium (an as-yet undeveloped site in distant exurban nowheresville), but it turned out okay … they split the difference between the Boston and Providence metros and tapped into what would become a booming market. Combine the Triangle and Triad and you get the 14th biggest metro in the US, larger than Seattle and behind only Atlanta and Miami in the Southeast.
Center to center:
Dallas to Fort Worth, ~31 miles
Raleigh to Winston, ~92 miles
its not the same.
No one is driving 1.5 hours from Raleigh for a tuesday night baseball game and then 1.5 hours back. Shoot probably not even for weekend games.
Buc-ees and MLB have literally zero in common.
