" The ill-fated 17.7-mile Durham-Orange Light Rail (DOLRT) was slated to cost $3.3 billion to complete or $186 million per mile. The almost 20-mile BRT system is expected to be about $350 million or around $17 million per mile. For a point of reference, the current 540 extension is estimated to cost $2.2 billion for 28 miles of roadway (or $78,571,428 per mile), we’ll take the BRT line that promotes more sustainable travel behaviors and land-use any day."
Well, that’s apples-and-oranges. That new section of 540 will shift a lot of heavy truck traffic off of I-40 through the south side of Raleigh, especially trucks that move containerized freight to and from the NC ports. And there’s no proposal for any BRT around the southeast side of Wake County (i.e., people in Zebulon going to the main Wake Tech campus or people in Apex who work in Knightdale). Offloading I-40 and I-440 onto a complete I-540 actually makes it easier for bus routes to use I-40 and I-440.
Or to put it differently, if you kill the completion of I-540 on grounds that BRT is a better idea, you lose all the support for the mass transit tax that you got in south Wake. And then the whole plan goes into the toilet, taking BRT with it.
Well ultimately the $2.2 billion will be paid by the actual users of the I-540 toll road. Can they say the same thing for the $3.3 billion that would have been used to build the DOLRT?
Hmmm. I feel like you covered a lot of topics there. I am mostly just pro the BRT and think that if we don’t push for it to be done well then it will get watered down and not be as great as it should be version of it.
Your comment about South Wake needing to be onboard to vote for transit so kind of linking 540 extension to BRT made me wonder how South Wake votes for the funding for BRT (that already happened). South Wake seem to have already voted against the BRT. NC SBE Election Contest Details
There were still enough Yes votes in the burbs to contribute to overall passage. If you make the referendum about halting 540, not only do you lose many/most of those Yes votes, but you also hit a hornet nest and drive up voter turnout. You also incur the wrath of the chambers of commerce that represent the business community that want 540 completed. A very bad idea. Stopping expressway construction inside an urban area like Atlanta, DC, or NY (all of which happened) is one thing. Stopping it in the outlying areas is something else.
I am doubtful that 540 will capture much truck traffic. It will mostly be used to enable supercommuters to move easily between Johnston County and RTP or Durham at rush hour. At least being a toll road, they will pay somewhat for that use.
It will certainly not help reduce congestion on I-40. People will only resort to using the toll road as a bypass if the free alternative is congested, so there will always be enough traffic on I-40 to keep it congested at the peak. Beyond that, it will mostly serve as a tool to encourage development in southern Wake.
Well, at least with the Bus or Rail system, it’s all inclusive. You pay a few bucks and hop on.
With southern I-540, you still have to supply a vehicle, and then operate it! And pay a few bucks for the toll.
Of course these serve different purposes. Looks like we’ll get 2 of the 3 systems (540 and BRT). At least the new bus station should bring us a couple new towers (someday)…
Oh, I disagree. Plenty of truckers look forward to not being tied up for an hour or more in rush hours M-F on 40. For them, time is money.
Will completing 540 reduce congestion on 40? Sure it will. You’ve got a significant number of people in Garner-Clayton working in RTP, at RDU, etc.
By your same argument, no one would be using the western arc of 540 – especially with a four-laned toll-free 55 immediately adjacent to it. But people do.
Given that 150,000 people already live in Garner, F-V, HS, and Apex, I’d say the cat is out of the bag when it comes to development of south Wake. It will continue whether the south arc of 540 is completed or not. Hard to make a case that building the north arc of 540 led to development of north Wake. It was the other way around.
I am highly skeptical that 540 will do anything to reduce congestion on 40. Time and time again you’ll see new projects that are built to provide congestion relief which works temporarily but within a short period of time, additional growth along the corridor or diverted trips ends up filling in the empty space as well.
Also the summer Beach traffic. I-40 is crazy on Fridays from everyone west of the triangle making their way to the coast. Once south I-540 opens, this traffic can bypass downtown.
By the end of the year I-885 will connect the Durham Freeway with I-85, allowing northern Durham traffic access directly to 540 all the way around the mess of the exits for RDU, Cary, and Raleigh. And where 540 will connect to 40 south of Raleigh, it will also tie in directly to I-42, (hwy 70) the future interstate to New Bern and beyond. A few bucks will allow drivers from the Triad and northern Triangle to skip I-40s busiest sections. For a county with over a million residents, and the anchor for the center of the state, this outer loop will be welcome.
Very few people use the Western Wake portion outside of rush hour when 55 is congested. And 540 is much faster (a 65mph freeway) than 55 (a 50mph road with stoplights) even with no congestion so that’s worth something.
The difference between 540 and 40 is much less. 540 will be 70mph compared with 65 on 40, but the distance is actually less on 40, so uncongested travel times will probably be about the same. Only at times of day when 40 is congested will 540 be faster, which is what will push most people who will use the toll road.
If 40 magically becomes uncongested as a result of opening 540, then most of the drivers on 540 who shifted there to avoid congestion, will shift back to 40, until it becomes congested enough again that it pushes people to use the toll road again.
I think you are 100% right on I-40 not really being effected by this. The one really clear thing that completing I-540 south will do is help spur development in places with lower current population in a bedroom communities fashion like Apex and Holly Spring have seen since it came to them. It will induce demand by people saying, wow, easy commute cheaper to live there. That is the big story with I-540 and the number one driver. Lots of people move to FV and Clayton with traffic as it is there, the new highway will just induce more people to do that.
How did this thread turn into I-540 Lol? All I ever meant to do it point out that BRT is a good deal.
I was trying to find out when dirt would start turning for the RUS BUS.
This paywall article suggests a start next summer. A snippit:
“The RFQ went out last month. The plan is to shortlist the responses this month before issuing a Request for Proposals. Then, if all goes well, a development award could be issued as early as December. And that could lead to construction starting in mid 2020 with a goal of completion for late 2022.”
Guess will just have to put a wall around Triangle and not let anyone new move in or outsiders pass through. !!! Oh also ban kids until after grandparents, who must be Triangle residents as well, die.
All I have said is that people who think 540 will fix congestion on 40 will be sorely disappointed. This is like saying “I am glad they are building it, so other people can pay to use it and then I can have my free, uncongested commute on I-40.” Sorry, things don’t work that way. A similar thing applies to public transit. It doesn’t reduce congestion. It provides an alternative and allows denser development to work.
When I first moved to Raleigh in 1998 for school, the Beltline was a total nightmare at peak times of day. I-540 only ran from 40 to Glenwood when I first got here. When I graduated and moved away in 2002, 540 was open to either Creedmoor or Six Forks (can’t remember), but it was still pretty empty.
Cut to 2008 when I moved back to Raleigh and 540 was open to US-64… 540 had become a parking lot, but ironically the beltline (while still very busy) wasn’t nearly as bad as I remembered it from the late 90s. I commuted on the beltline daily from 2013 through 2015, and 540 from 2015 until 2018. By comparison, 440 was a better commute than 540 on most days. When the metered ramps were opened up on 540 the mornings (westbound) got slightly better. Ultimately, I ended up moving so that I didn’t have to commute on either expressway to get to work. The increase in my mortgage has paid for itself in the reduction of my stress level.
TLDR, I’m not pro highways, but from my personal experience, there was a significant traffic shift between 440 and 540 once the later was opened up in Northern Wake.
Difference is, northern 540 is free and beats the pants off the slog down to the beltline on Capital, Falls, or Six Forks any time of day. Given that the alternate route for 540 is a freeway, aside from the few people currently living in this part of southern Wake for whom it will save time, people will only choose to pay to use it if that money actually buys them something. There has to be congestion on I-40 for it to be worth it.
Thinking out loud here: With the new prospects of a Kane/Malik stadium/mixed-use project at Penmarc as well as Kane’s proposed Boylan Heights 20 story rezoning/redevelopment, Kane’s existing Dillon project, and the ongoing development of Kane’s Peace/Smokey Hollow project - the mythical “Prime Corridor” that was pitched by Kane seems to be coming together.
Add to this the non-Kane projects along this corridor: Five Horizons/South Saunders, Fairweather Condos, Various Warehouse District Projects, Glenwood South (in general), North West St, and the “Iron District” Atlantic/Capital Blvd Area connecting this area to Kane’s original North Hills.
Think of the number of jobs, homes, and entertainment options along this single corridor. Connecting these centers/hubs/districts together with transit has to be a key priority for the city as we move forward. The proposed BRT already mainly covers these areas, but it could become a very important, heavily used transit mode if implemented well.
