I think it’s gross floor area (in square feet)
1 Like
Is there a start date for phase 1? Did not see that anywhere in the master plan.
There isn’t one but roughly 5 years from date of approval. So 5 to 6 years from now.
In the master plan I believe it said phase I to be complete by 2023, so groundbreaking 2021 ish
1 Like
19 posts were split to a new topic: McDowell and Dawson Streets
Leo,
I would love to hear your thoughts on this plan…
Are you willing to share?
It’ll be on the blog soon. I haven’t digested the whole thing yet. 
The integration with Nash Square is a wonderful feature. And the Phase 3 tower … a very interesting ‘private project’ with residential, retail, commercial… these mixed use buildings are my favorite.
And possibly starting in 2021? Bring it!
5 Likes
Municipal plaza tied to Nash, along with ground floor retail that ties to the sidewalk/street gets my nod of approval.
2 Likes
One of my concerns is that simply adding a plaza in-between two buildings isn’t really expanding the pedestrian network if no one really utilizes it? We need only look to the exact same plaza between the NC Museum of Sciences and the NC Museum of History. Imho it doesn’t add much to the overall DTR pedestrian network, except maybe as a place for the city employees to congregate? Also and even more importantly than the three hideous square box buildings, is that this plan came at a high financial cost to taxpayers from a world leading architecture firm…?
At least give us a big bang for our big bucks. Sorry, I couldn’t resist that last comment. 
2 Likes
I’m fairly certain those buildings are just there to show massing, not the final designs.
5 Likes
@Justin6882
God, I hope so…
I guess what scares me is that I have seen some of the original sketches that were made for the State Government complex before they were built. Most of them looked like these pictures and in my opinion the one example that got built was the State Administration building.
(which they just renovated I believe)
Already ready to be renovated…Lol
I would also add that I actually wish they were able to remove the road in-between the park and city hall…now that would be more pedestrian!
Enough of the buildings at the same height, minimum 20-25 stories each, but different heights, OMG!!
Get creative DTR!!!
Two thoughts…
-
It would be great for building #2 that replaces the actual city hall and presumably with a new city hall chamber, would include a grand lobby and some type of interesting spire/architecture to denote its place as a ceremonial building.
-
Raleigh should include a revamp of Nash Square, akin to the Moore Square project, as part of this redevelopment.
4 Likes
Also and even more importantly than the three hideous square box buildings, is that this plan came at a high financial cost to taxpayers from a world leading architecture firm…?
At least give us a big bang for our big bucks.
This is a masterplan, not an architectural design. They haven’t designed the buildings yet, although the diagrams do suggest that they are expecting them to be rectilinear, which makes sense from a cost perspective. And there’s nothing wrong with boxes, provided that they are beautifully/elegantly detailed and still have elements of unique and iconic design. SOM has suggested that this will be the case. See, for example, pages 43 and 44.
.
The conceptual image on 38 is also telling of what SOM envisions - an understated design that uses certain urban moves to create an impactful presence. Even if the buildings themselves are simple but elegant boxes, this campus could still provide a really rich public experience.
5 Likes
I agree - the box design can be very nice - modern, sleek, efficient, minimalism
Also keep in mind that the the city already had critics to unify city campus not to mention building it 20 stories. If they go overboard with the design for the city building on tax dollars it would create the wrong image.
3 Likes
Most buildings in the heart of Paris are only 5-6 stories . . .
Washington, D.C. has height limits of 130 feet at maximum, and only 20 feet taller than the width of the street otherwise.
Not that Raleigh is up the level of either of those cities, but the point is that we don’t have to build tall to be great, or to have buildings of varying heights (though it is nice). But if buildings are to be constructed at the same height, there should at least be some architectural variation between them.
5 Likes
A lot of the buildings in downtown Richmond are around the same height. However, downtown Richmond is on a pretty good drop down to the riverfront. It looks much more dense than Raleigh, but I always wanted more variation (peaks, dones, spires) in the skyline. They have added to the skyline since I moved back to Raleigh, but nothing really stands out. It has a nice urban feel to it, something I really miss. And of course the Riverfront was always a great place to kill some time on the weekend.
As an aside… I always loved how the buildings were all lit up at night, especially around the holidays. The approach from 95 heading north was always pretty cool to see. It definitely made the city more memorable to the passers-through on the interstate.
Sorry, didn’t mean to stray from Raleigh… but my point is that there isn’t really much memorable about Raleigh’s current skyline. It is just kinda meh? With some interesting lighting schemes or adding a topper to the Wells Fargo building, we could create some interest in the City. Fingers crossed that we will have some interesting architecture in the new City Government Campus… just PLEASE do something different than the Dillion. I personally hate that building, just my opinion.
2 Likes
My apologies in advance Nickster…but please don’t let DTRichmond happen to DTRaleigh… 
The city of Richmond is beautiful, just like the city of Raleigh!
However, when I think of DTRichmond, I think of square boxes, dense thought it may be…
1 Like
[W]e don’t have to build tall to be great, or to have buildings of varying heights (though it is nice). But if buildings are to be constructed at the same height, there should at least be some architectural variation between them.
Even if you have simple-shaped, rectangular, glass buildings, you can still be creative about how the building looks… especially if you try enough.
For example, what if you took the City of Raleigh’s logo…
…and made it the facade of each of the two buildings? Kind of like a Raleigh Twin Towers? (plus this would probably look cool if you light it up at night)
(I used the generic shape of the massing models in the master plan, and took a bit creative liberty with the plaza. I apologize for the poor quality of the sketch.)
…or if you REALLY wanted to be creative, you could even use reinforced wood (“City of Oaks”, anyone?) in certain parts to make it look unique. And I’m not a professional architectural designer; I’m just a grad student from an unrelated field.
Point is, I don’t see a reason to feel like we’re going to be resigned to lame, boring mediocrity. Echoing what @elevatoroperator said:
This is a masterplan, not an architectural design. They haven’t designed the buildings yet
(just don’t use unethically sourced rainforest timber)
14 Likes