I couldn’t decide which rail thread to put this in, but I did want to get our DTR Community rail experts to weigh in on if the following claim has any validity. It’s at least funny if nothing else.
The US standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That’s an exceedingly odd number. Why was that gauge used? Well, because that’s the way they built them in England, and English engineers designed the first US railroads. Why did the English build them like that? Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the wagon tramways, and that’s the gauge they used. So, why did ‘they’ use that gauge then? Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they had used for building wagons, which used that same wheel spacing. Why did the wagons have that particular odd wheel spacing? Well, if they tried to use any other spacing, the wagon wheels would break more often on some of the old, long distance roads in England . You see, that’s the spacing of the wheel ruts. So who built those old rutted roads? Imperial Rome built the first long distance roads in Europe (including England ) for their legions. Those roads have been used ever since. And what about the ruts in the roads? Roman war chariots formed the initial ruts, which everyone else had to match or run the risk of destroying their wagon wheels. Since the chariots were made for Imperial Rome, they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing. Therefore the United States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches is derived from the original specifications for an Imperial Roman war chariot. Bureaucracies live forever. So the next time you are handed a specification/procedure/process and wonder ‘What horses ass came up with this?’, you may be exactly right. Imperial Roman army chariots were made just wide enough to accommodate the rear ends of two war horses. (Two horses’ asses.)
Now, the twist to the story: When you see a Space Shuttle sitting on its launch pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main fuel tank. These are solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are made by Thiokol at their factory in Utah. The engineers who designed the SRBs would have preferred to make them a bit fatter, but the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the factory to the launch site. The railroad line from the factory happens to run through a tunnel in the mountains, and the SRBs had to fit through that tunnel. The tunnel is slightly wider than the railroad track, and the railroad track, as you now know, is about as wide as two horses’ behinds. So, a major Space Shuttle design feature, of what is arguably the world’s most advanced transportation system, was determined over two thousand years ago by the width of a horse’s ass. And you thought being a horse’s ass wasn’t important? Ancient horses’ asses control almost everything.
Moderate which is 1980s conservative in today words. They are Livable Raleigh too. I just hope young voters don’t fall for the kool aid. And next year council elections will be crucial especially if there’s talk of expanding to 4 years.
I’ve read a couple things online saying anywhere from it’s not true to it is true, but for trivial reasons. Snopes has a good article on it. Their conclusion is that it’s not really about a direct line of copying what came before, but more about fulfilling the same needs over long periods of time.
Marveling that the width of modern roadways is similar to the width of ancient roadways is sort of like getting excited over a notion along the lines of “modern clothes sizes are based upon standards developed by medieval tailors.” Well, duh. Despite obvious differences in style, clothing in the Middle Ages served the same purpose as clothing today (i.e., to cover, protect, and ornament the human body),…
Most of the railroads in the South were broad gauge, the reason for which was that it allowed for wider equipment to more efficiently load cotton bales. This lasted until the Reconstruction era, when it became apparent that interoperability with the system of the North was crucial to rebuild the South, as breaks of gauge were extremely inefficient. So, in 1886, all the rails and rolling stock were converted from 5 ft gauge to 4’ 9" (“almost” standard gauge) over two days.
Yeah, anyone familiar with the many, many actual gauges that railroads use will know it’s a vast oversimplification.
“Loading gauges” (width of the car body above the wheels) also vary substantially; this has been a big problem for things like Triangle rail transit proposals because we can’t have high platforms (much better for passengers to not have to climb a bunch of steps) and freight trains on the same tracks.
The News & Observer published this article that summarizes GoTriangle’s latest decisions about regional/commuter rail. Nothing in this article should be surprising to anyone who’s followed this thread, but here are key passages for those of y’all who need a reminder (or are too lazy):
GoTriangle cannot build regional rail, today, in a responsible way. BUT, unlike 2006, they're willing to play the long game to ensure that it will still happen eventually.
After all, one of the subsection headings in the article is:
To go into more detail about that:
This is where we need to remember that a lot of the infrastructure needs (many in Durham, but some in Cary and Raleigh, too) are lumped together into the $3 billion price tag. This is mainly because, without those upgrades, NCRR and Norfolk Southern have said repeatedly that it’s impossible to run trains without it being frequently delayed or blocked by Amtrak/freight trains, and/or we run them so infrequently that it’s not useful for anyone.
This means we can’t skimp on the scope of this project beyond some cost-cutting measures that this study has already pointed out. But:
So, naturally, it’s ridiculous to ask just the feds and local governments to pitch in; the state should be helping us as well. But we know that direct funding of transit projects is something that North Carolina’s ruling political party is openly hostile to (and negotiations are non-starters since they have a supermajority), so we have to chip away at that $3B price tag by other means. Thankfully, there is a powerful way to do just that:
And just to put that one criticism to rest, once and for all:
GoTriangle knows that it's no longer enough to just focus on 9-to-5 commuters in this post-Covid world.
Raleigh/NCSU need to work out some sort of high density mix-use corridor from PNC arena to the rail line 1 mile south. If we thought like Japan we would build a high-end shopping mall and apartment complex right on top of the rail line with a mix-use corridor leading to the PNC Arena.
Japan has a lot more control over its land but I think the NCSU master plan (if implemented properly) will help to bridge the gap between downtown and the majority of its campus. Also, during the build out process it will most likely cause developers to bridge the gap between main campus and PNC.
I wonder how feasible that even is anymore. The 2021 estimate to implement commuter rail up through the lake towns of Huntersville, Cornelius, and Davidson was somehow $671M, and that was just the bare minimum current single-track alignment.
Ideally regional rail should run from Charlotte up to Mooresville, with daily further connections to Winston Salem. But that would likely be monumentally expensive as the entire route from Charlotte is single-tracked and many stretches are in various stages of disrepair.
I was thinking we could get private investors to help fund the commuter rail, or we could wait for inflation to cool down which could bring down the cost, but there are ways to get around federal and state funding. Detriot Q-line was initially privately funded, then the Feds gave em some money.
There are several threads where I could drop this link, but I’m going to start here due to the nature of my commentary.
It looks like round two of public feedback for the Wake Transit Plan Update is live on the CAMPO site. There are a few PDFs on the page to give you a sense of where they’re at currently, and most of it is in line with what the previous plan was going for (the same BRT lines, more high-frequency bus routes, new crosstown routes, a few transit centers, etc.). There’s also a comment box and a link to a survey.
In poking through the documentation, the one thing that jumped out at me as “new” was the shift in approach to rail. They more or less acknowledged (without explicitly saying it) that trying to do rail in-house isn’t really working out. So instead, they’re looking to start contributing a portion of Wake Transit Plan funds to NCDOT Rail Division projects on both NCRR and the S-Line. I’d seen indications of this previously, but this seems to make it a bit more official.
Personally, I think this is a great move. GoTriangle has flopped on rail numerous times at this point (not entirely their fault, but a flop is a flop). In contrast, NCDOT Rail continues to demonstrate meaningful progress in their efforts and keeps winning federal grants, some of which have been rather competitive. If they can manage to keep that momentum going (which, admittedly, does depend heavily on the new administration’s approach), I expect the Piedmont will continue to improve on speed, frequency, and reliability to the point that it can eventually double as a local commuter service, much like the Keystone Service in Pennsylvania or the Capitol Corridor in California.
Click below to learn more and fill out the comment box and/or survey.
This is very refreshing news. I have been suggesting this for nearly five years, and others on here have been doing the same (@Kevin , @keita - among others). They had given some hints that they were moving in this direction in Phase 1 of the survey, but it’s nice to know they seem to be more sure about it now.
NCDOT has the staffing and the experience to manage this project.
There is enough federal investment locked in for the NCRR and S-line in Wake County to keep forward momentum even through four likely thinner years. The full build out of the S-line to Wake Forest, of course. As for Raleigh to Durham, completing the double track from Raleigh to the county line (and beyond - to I-40) are all funded. Several grade separations are also funded and in the works.
Some funding from the Wake County transit tax will move this forward even more and keep the lights on if federal support slows for a while.
It is important to note that rail support for North Carolina has not been entirely partisan even at the federal level. NCDOT was given a $80m grant in May 2020 for passenger trains, which was an era with a republican president and senate, and a democratic house. We haven’t spent that $80m yet but I believe the idea is that NCDOT is going to use itbto buy options on Amtrak’s order of Siemens trainsets.
Good to hear. Seems like there is plenty to do in the meantime before the federal money faucet may turn on again in 2029 (maybe).
You’re right about the bipartisanship. NC’s republican senators have been decent advocates for federal $$ to NCDOT rail projects. I hope they keep it up this time around.
Remember that we first learned about the $1B R2R (really, Cary-Wake Forest) grant from Tillis’ office:
“This $1 billion grant for North Carolina to make progress on the Raleigh to Richmond Rail Line is a big win for economic development in the region,” said Senator Tillis. “I’m proud this investment was made possible by the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law that I helped negotiate, write, and pass into law.”
Yes, you are right that rail transport, and even passenger rail transport, has always enjoyed a degree of bipartisan support here in NC, something that has clearly been helped by NCDOT Rail’s competence.
My main point is, though, that although the federal spigot may slow under Trump, it may not turn off entirely. During his first administration it was not closed completely: Almost $200m total were awarded from 2018-2020, as below:
2018 $20m toward NCRR Blue Ridge Rd grade separation
2019 $77m toward new passenger trains
2020 $80m more toward new passenger trains
I doubt that we will see new $billion-plus investments from Trump, but NCDOT Rail is a proven winner that delivers results. I doubt it will stop completely.
It’s also possible that the outgoing Biden administration may award some more grants to NCDOT rail prior to inauguration day. Much of the funds appropriated by the BIL have not been allocated yet.
That is the critical point, I believe. Successful, proven track record, growing ridership. This needs to the story about rail in the US, not the mega disaster that is Cal’s cluster fart.
