Another good read.
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âHowever, the megacity of 30 million people has done better than most at managing the outbreak. As of Feb. 27, it reported 337 infections and three deaths, without a single case of unknown origin.â
This is amazing. Experience, preparedness drawn from that experience, and early action seems to have made the difference.
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Yes. All this crap about the end of cities in western civilization is a load of BS based in the solipsistic, possibly racist, notion that we cannot possibly learn from or copy Asia. We have this weird notion that Asian countries are simultaneously beneath us (They donât value life like we do! They are so conformist! They are basically androids!) and above us (They are so good at trains, technology, manufacturing, we need protectionism to keep domestic industries alive! Their education system is too good to serve as a model!), and above all, so impossibly different from us, that there is absolutely no point to even trying to learn from them. And that furthermore, weâre better off dynamiting our cities than even trying.
This is the ugly side of âAmerican Exceptionalism.â The belief that just by being American, everything we do is exceptional and essentially blessed by God. That to learn from others would be to deny that exceptionalism and should be avoided at all costs. Shudder.
Japan and South Korea have done an admirable of managing this outbreak and their cities are easily as dense, or denser, than ours. They are just as human as we are. Just look at what theyâve done and copy it. We donât even have to understand why or how they arrived at their public health system, not at first at least. Adopting their systems with absolutely no local customization would be such a quantum leap ahead that we should just copy them for now, even if there are some elements that donât translate directly across cultures. Doesnât take a genius to do that.
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What a load of malarkey.
âDuke cancels Triangle rail lineâ must be racism (earlier orulz post). And now:
âcriticism of Asia after yet another pandemic release from thereâ must be racism.
Funny how you point to Japan and S. Korea (US Allies that were ironically rebuilt by America) but leave out China, the largest polluter in the world, and with all the problems they have. Progressives LOVE shipping western jobs there, ignoring the low regard for environmental impacts or worker rights. And conveniently the âUse Localâ motto is set aside as we centralize all manufacturing with a corrupt regime at exactly the farthest point away from our markets. Shipping our pharma/electronics/chemical/etc jobs away has been a disaster. Just look at the I-85 corridor and the desolation by not using a small measure of protectionism to maintain our manufacturing base LOCAL. Pay people wages instead of welfare. Income from taxes instead of Federal Reserve debt.
Regarding the topic at hand (Density):
Did you see the article that @TedF posted? Please give it a go. Had some interesting data points.
New technologies make it increasingly easy for companies to work away from dense megacities, sparking a process described as âcounter-urbanization.â For firms connected by the Internet, it makes sense to locate in suburban regions and smaller towns that are generally safer, cleaner, and less expensive. Rather than concentrate in big cities, notes economist Jed Kolko, the share of the economy controlled by the five largest metros has declined over the past quarter-century.
This trend was picking up even before the coronavirus pandemic. Last year, Austin, Salt Lake City, Dallas-Fort Worth, and Phoenix, as well as smaller cities like Madison, WI, and Boise, grew their tech sector twice as quickly as hubs like New York or Los Angeles. There are growing signs that even Silicon Valley is dispersing, evidenced by Lyftâs move of many key operations to Nashville, Uberâs move to establish its second-largest office in Dallas-Fort Worth, and Appleâs placing of its second-largest facility in the suburbs north of Austin.
Also, regarding global warming / housing affordability:
Even before the pandemic, the benefits of working remotely were apparent in terms of productivity, innovation, and lower turnover. It appears to be particularly attractive to seniors and educated millennials. These digital natives have already accepted the notion that they can accomplish as much at home as in the office. As one student told me, âI donât see the point of driving an hour to go from one computer screen to another.â
In the United States, some rural states in particularâOklahoma to Vermont, Maine to Iowaâhave developed incentive programs for telecommuters, including bonuses for moving and subsidies for establishing a business. These often include the option of living in an affordable small town or even a farmstead and still participating in the high-end of the global economy, which is particularly appealing to experienced older workers as well as young families. Ultimately, the dispersed work model may also be used to combat climate change since working from home can save considerable energy.
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One of our biggest challenges in times like this is that we have a highly individual culture vs. countries that have a more collective culture. Managing crisis in a collective culture is much easier to coordinate.
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Diversity is only a problem when we make it one. When we look at a black neighborhood and a white neighborhood and build a wall between them and give the white neighborhood access to government-backed mortgages When we donât adopt sensible practices that are almost universal overseas, like single payer healthcare, because weâre worried that the Others are too lazy, donât share our hallowed âexceptionally Americanâ protestant work ethic and it will disincentive them from contributing to society.
The notion that ideas from
Japan are not applicable to here because we are more diverse is the real load of malarkey. I lived in Japan for a year while SARS was going on in Asia. They are equally human to us, and react in much the same way. There are non compliant people there too. They arenât robots.
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Diversity is only a problem when we make it one.
Huh? I bring that up to highlight your examples of Japan and Korea as our models for dense urbanity.
Yet you downplay how those nations are the most un-diverse, mono cultures in the world. They are use to âstack and packâ. Weâre not. We have the problem of âundocumented immigrantsâ that freely cross into the country and can take affordable/public housing up faster than we can create it, acerbating the density challenge here. Those countries tolerate zero illegal immigration and have none of these problems.
When we look at a black neighborhood and a white neighborhood and build a wall between them and give the white neighborhood access to government-backed mortgages
Absolute bullshit! The last economic disaster in the USA was the 2008 Housing Bubble crash, due to the mandate to the banks to lend money to anyone âwho could fog a mirrorâ. Loans to non-whites who were totally unqualified, but for âsocial justiceâ reasons were given housing loans, lead to the crisis. If white families (and asian, and hispanic, etec) are more qualified because they have in-tact families, and are achieving higher educational goals, etc, then thatâs where appropriate loans will go. But for you ⌠itâs âmuh racismâ.
When we donât adopt sensible practices that are almost universal overseas, like single payer healthcare, because weâre worried that the Others are too lazy, donât share our hallowed âexceptionally Americanâ protestant work ethic and it will disincentive them from contributing to society.
This is classic liberal racism right here. You say black Americans are disincentivized to work due to protestant something something? WTF? So why do people from India manage to be successful here? Asians, who out-achieve whites in nearly all categories vs white⌠no protestants there. Migrants from south of border? Also out-achieving black Americans in many categories⌠nothing to do with your so called âprotestant work ethicâ.
The notion that ideas from Japan are not applicable to here because we are more diverse is the real load of malarkey. I lived in Japan for a year while SARS was going on in Asia. They are equally human to us, and react in much the same way. There are non compliant people there too. They arenât robots.
Japan was a feudal nation (i.e. non dense/ non-urban) that was taken over by a militant government and a compliant populace, and brutally invaded and murdered hundreds of millions of Asians in their WW2 takeover of Manchuria, the Philippines, and much of the region. They were finally defeated by the Americans, who led to the transformation of Japan into the modern nation it is now, with a quality ethic and a clean slate to build USA-subsidized manufacturing that became the envy of the world.
It was American Exceptionalism that led to the defeat and âtamingâ of the Japanese empire. To this day tens of thousands of US Military occupy Japan AND South Korea, allowing them to benefit under the protective security umbrella and spending almost no budget on security. Compare the nations under US influence to those that arenât, such as- North Korea. Why arenât they in your list of countries we should emulate? The minute that they sign an agreement with the USA to end the war and start on a re-unification with the South, they will explode with prosperity. You wonât like that it would be âAmerican Exceptionalismâ that leads to North Korea emerging from shit-hole status, but that will be the truth.
Anyway, why this thread is on the DTR forum is pretty silly. Thatâs more for urbanplanet.com or something.
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Anyway, why this thread is on the DTR forum is pretty silly. Thatâs more for urbanplanet.com or something.
Yet you chose to participate. Letâs get back on topic.
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Iâm muting these one, not here to hear people arguer over opinions.
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What I get out of that is sort of what I feel in my gut anywayâŚmetropolisis are justâŚtoo much. Things are not dispersing so much as just feeling that bump up against an ungangly and unwieldy sizeâŚbut still tightly built cities are cited. I think a city is still the place many of the telecommuters want to live I think. In my head the country would end up as little knots of 100-400k dense cities all connected by fast rail and nothing but farms and parkland in between them. Thats not dispersing so much as cleaving up the density into smaller bites. Its better for the natural environment too, and I feel the human psyche as well. An urban balance or equilibrium if you will. And it feels and looks like there is some energy in that direction. Thanks for the read.
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This is like much of Europe.
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Power 100 2020: John Kane - Business North Carolina Interesting read. I highly recommend you guys to read this article about John Kane.
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The advantage that Raleigh has over many other cities is that itâs hitting its major growth spurt in a quasi-post suburban era where returning to the city is desirable, walkability is seen as an asset, and not all investment is pushed beyond the existing footprint of the city. This is not to say that nobody wants suburbia anymore (so donât get triggered please all you suburbanites), itâs just that not everyone wants it.
Raleigh needs to find ways to generate revenues within its footprint to pay for our aging infrastructure, and responding to this post suburban era is an amazing opportunity.
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tell that to north hillsâŚlol
that seems to be the definition of growth spurt and is COMPLETLEY in the burbs being OTB
With all the development planned from midtown to downtown, along WF road, wonât be long until there is an urban corridor connecting downtown to NH. I think the previous comment was about suburbia growth as in Wakefield type developments, which is a far cry from NH.
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Using the beltline as the hard boundary between urban and suburban Raleigh, and especially a focus on ITB Raleigh as the only part worth paying attention to, is not a reflection of reality and has always bugged me.
There are bunches of neighborhoods inside the beltline that are extremely low density, highly exclusive, lacking diversity, and to be frank, the opposite of interesting to me. In addition, there are lots of OTB neighborhoods that are diverse, inclusive, and in some cases, surprisingly dense! Even including a few neighborhoods in (Gasp of Gasps) Cary!
FWIW, the distance from the Capitol to North Hills is about the same as the distance from Five Points in Downtown Atlanta to Arts Center at the northern end of Midtown.
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Iâve never considered the Beltline as a hard boundary of urban and suburban, and I agree with what you say in this post. IMO, the ITB designation has always been about status and culture. Thereâs a sort of best of both worlds sort of thing going on when you can both be in a gracious SFH AND be insanely close to downtown.
Ironically, some of the densest OTB neighborhoods are the newer ones on the cityâs edge that have more densely packed single family homes mixed with multi-family units.
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I think @John explained this perfectly. The ITB is about the status and âcultureâ.
Iâve actually wondered what should actually be considered a âcityâ. I gathered some population data in 2018 from a site that used to be free but now charges. I included numbers from Hayward, CA and Westminster, CO as Iâve been to both of them plenty of times and they give a different insight showing that Raleigh overall isnât that dense of city. If I use a 2.5 mile radius around a point, then we find that North Hills has a higher population than the Capital Building in Raleigh.
If we go by 5 miles, the population within 5 miles of North Hills is higher than the population of Charlotte and downtown Raleigh.
Density wise, if we go down to 1 mile, then we can see downtown Raleigh does have a significant bigger population within 1 mile. The same goes for Charlotte.
This is based off population and does not include data such as daytime population (when offices are full) or job density in general. If more people start to work from home or take classes from home even after COVID, I do wonder what that would mean for downtown Raleigh.
I live up near the mall and mainly find myself going to Glenwood South to âgo outâ. All we really need up here is a couple of better bars/breweries and I wonât need to leave the area. Itâs the same problem I have with North Hills. North Hills has shops, but I donât buy that kind of expensive clothes and to me itâs either too pricey or has the chain restaurant feel.
I like more relaxed places like the Raleigh Beer Garden, Flying Saucer, Woodyâs, or what is over on East Whitaker Mill Rd at the Loading Dock.
I also like the area around Spring Forest Rd/Falls of Neuse. It seems like they have a few different bars. The public transit up there isnât great, but the 2 does have 30 minute frequency.
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