Dorothea Dix Park

[Street_Grid]

Definitely not a waste of prime real estate. As @orulz says, Pullen Park is absolutely bursting at the seams on many days, so there is plenty of demand, and this is closer/more walkable to Downtown.

A few other thoughts: this play area will focus heavily on an interactive water feature, which is not something that Pullen has.

Also, if the master plan is followed, this is just the first of many phases. Other parts of the park will eventually include restoration of the stream, gardens, some (as yet undefined) adaptive reuse for the buildings on the hilltop, a walking loop, a water garden, etc.

I do think you could make a reasonable argument that in light of other playgrounds in the area that perhaps the Play Plaza could have been a later phase. That being said, maybe this is something that the city thought of as an easy, popular “win” to help finance some of those more expensive portions later.

Finally, and maybe most importantly, the city got a very generous $10 million donation from the Gipsons for the Play Plaza. Maybe that is why we are getting this first, b/c the people willing to donate $10 million wanted this to be built. I suspect if there had been someone ready to donate a similar amount for some of the other things we would be getting those right now.

[trueurbanist]

I’m also curious as to what you would put in the park’s place. @camclean1

[camclean1]

I would say a later phase, after you build more residential with mixed incomes. That way it will truly be walkable.

[camclean1]

High density, mixed use, with mixed income residential. Most of the high density projects are filled with and people without kids. People with kids and or families with average incomes aren’t going to be living in rockway or the weld. The additional park, scaled down, could be a later phase, after the mixed residential is built. Something similar to how they rebuilt Halifax with apartments, town homes, bungalows and then single family homes. That way you get a mix of incomes and diversity that people say is not in dt.

[orulz]

I have to admit that I was not expecting this reply, and it did give me pause. Maybe I didn’t expect you to have an answer at all. Not sure why, Anyway.

When Dix Park was still Dix Hospital, and this was all being talked about, the city’s first consultant recommended putting development on the edge of the park, just as you suggest. At the time, they recommended this as a way to generate revenue that could be used to accelerate the implementation of the master plan for the rest of the park, and also to “activate” it, with a built-in set of park users and “eyes on the park” to make sure it didn’t become a desolate, lawless wasteland. As I recall, mostly market-rate development was on the table at the time. I don’t recall much discussion of affordable housing.

My thoughts at the time were: “OK, good idea, we need more residents within walking distance of this park and downtown, and the money won’t hurt either.” But then the Dix 306 group came in and argued that all of Dix should be a park. At first I thought they were a bunch of NIMBYs but they I realized they had a point.

They hired a consultant, who made the (IMO very salient) point that having clearly-defined boundaries between public (park) and private (apartments/condos etc) space strengthens both. And thinking about it, I definitely agree.

Think of how different Central Park would be if the “Billionaires Row” skyscrapers stood between central park and 59th street, rather than across from it? Much different, and almost immeasurably worse.

(I digress, but for this reason, I am kind of pissed about what NCSU has done with the Spring Hill Precinct of Centennial Campus in their master plan. They went to all the trouble of creating “The Seam” - a fantastic idea; a clearly defined boundary between park and campus - and then went and put two buildings on the other side of it. WHY?!)

So, Dix Park should come right up to Lake Wheeler Road, for the entire length. The development belongs across the street. This is a big part of the justification for upzoning Fuller Heights, and provides the “origin story” for Park City South/Rockway/The Weld/ETC, all of which I think is a good thing.

Now, to address affordable housing: By not allowing development on this public land, Raleigh has indeed sacrificed an opportunity to do an RFP and get a good bit of AH out of the deal. HOWEVER, look just to the north/east of Dix, and what do we find?

Something like 23 acres of Affordable Housing (yellow and red on this map):

Heritage Park and Gateway Park. All of it developed at very limited density, especially given its location. Heritage Park especially, developed in ~1975, at the absurdly low density of 10 units per acre, is actively being planned for redevelopment. Gateway Park was built around 2004 at the still-inadequate density of 14 units per acre, but is a good bit newer, so should be considered a 15-20 year horizon project for redevelopment.

Across these 23 acres, it would be shameful to wind up with less than ~2000 mixed-income units, which is about what could be achieved with a 5-over-2 format. 5,000 could be quite easily possible if we’re considering something more substantial.

[evan.j.bost]

Also the Gibson Play Plaza isn’t just a kid’s playground - it’s the official new entrance to Dix park, including parking and integration with the Lake Wheeler Rd improvement project. It really is just phase I of Dix build out

[trueurbanist]

I would agree if this weren’t a big local attraction that is becoming known worldwide with help from the Dreamville Festival.

[Kanatenah]

So your proposal is to basically make the park smaller. Let’s keep the park a park. There are plenty of empty and underutilized lots all through the downtown area where we can build residential mixed use. No need to encroach on the park.

[camclean1]

IMO, the demographic of people that will be staying within walking distance (in these new developments) will not be the ones utilizing it. You don’t see many people with families staying in expensive high rise developments, so who is this play area going to be walkable for?

[camclean1]

I thought Gateway Park was a nice addition, back in the day, (when you could actually see it from the road) but it feels out of place now with the much denser projects. I hope developers don’t botch the Heritage Park redevelopment. Someone on the site had an amazing plan, but i forgot where i saw it.

[evan.j.bost]

…
…you don’t think the people choosing to pay premium rent to live in new developments along the park will use the park…?

[aqdillman71]

And it was uphill both directions, too.

[camclean1]

The demographic of people willing to pay a premium to stay in the weld and rockway (walking distance) are more than likely single people or young adults with dogs and no kids. They’re not playing at the playground. You’re not getting many families to pay a premium to squeeze into 1-2 bedrooms.

[rgmedd]

Young single people with dogs often grow up to be married with children. Some will stay. And there are plenty of families who like to live in high rises! As do empty nesters and retirees etc.

[camclean1]

Not saying you’re wrong at all. I’m just saying, from my experience and life, I’ve seen couples and single people pay 2000+ for 1-2 bedrooms and lofts because they have a much more disposable income. Throw a child or 2 into that dynamic and priorities change drastically. I dont know if you’ve raised any kids in a 1 bedroom, but its less than ideal. The Eastern for example, is full of “bros”, tiktoc’ers and OF (believe me, they leave their shades open)… there’s hardly any families. And just to touch on the retirees, NH is surrounded by retirees and retirement communities and they’re never outside or walk to the park. I saw more old people in the 90s at NH when it was a mall…lol

[evan.j.bost]

Again, this is phase I on the park build out, including the House of Many Porches, parking, a new entrance, and a playground. It’s not just a kid’s destination

[mike]

Also, this isn’t a park for only people who can walk to it. Not sure what this ‘debate’ has to do with the new developments. Most people drive to Pullen now. Pullen is very crowded now. I literally don’t understand how another huge park is a bad thing.

[Brandonq]

Can’t hurt to have a really successful phase one of the park and the kids area will be a hit.

My only hope is they don’t cut corners moving forward on other phases. As many have said, we get one chance to get this right.

[TDR]

Got to remember that the City outlives us all.

The acquisition of 300+ acres both proximate to the downtown and accessible to all for park purposes is a huge life event for the City. Has already activated that entire subarea in anticipation. Doesn’t hurt that it is also an economic opportunity zone for investment tax purposes.

Activation of the Big Field and improving the greenway along Rocky Branch are the quick start projects. I like the play area phase as a tangible infrastructure project while waiting for the buildings to be made available for repurposing.

Point well taken that the dramatic hard edge of Central Park is what helps make it a place.

[DownEast]

This^^ Raleigh is beyond lucky to have an opportunity like this at its current stage of development. A large urban park this close to downtown… Charlotte at best has a handful of small parks as it never really planned for a large central park. They would kill for this. Heck, the only other large urban park in the South is maybe Piedmont Park in Atlanta, and Dix has the potential to be better than that. Raleigh should def maximize all the park space from this now to make it a jewel for the metro in the future. Dense development will radiate from Dix for years.