Downtown South development

Well here’s your problem.

In the grand scheme of things in the world of public infrastructure, expecting things to happen in a couple of years is asking for instant gratification.

Private development like Smokey Hollows takes much less because you aren’t held accountable to citizens all the time and your rules to decide what’s “worth it and okay” to build are different. It’s not about low expectations; it’s about playing an entirely different game. If you want public projects to go faster, you need to do one or both of:

  • change the rules for how things are built (read: be a part of writing new laws)

  • find a way to pay for what you want to build -without the strings attached that bog these projects down (good luck finding someone who’s willing to give you that $5 billion you need lol)

To bring this back to the topic of the Downtown South stadium proposal, this is why it’s hard to not bow down to private developers and other people; yeah they’re definitely wearing down on public accountability with the shortcuts they’re asking for, but it almost sounds like it’s the only way to make things happen in a reasonable time…

…as long as citizens are never in a consensus about their values and priorities for public works, at least.


Just so we are clear, Raleigh/Triangle have been “planning” for transit overhaul for at least 20 years. Frustrations likely come in large part because we seem to be endlessly planning.

@keita You make valid points. Thank you. So while I’m a bit sarcastic about the 75 years for mass transit, you now know why you never see me post on that category. It won’t happen in my lifetime. Sorry I got off topic here.


Partial agree…
City of Raleigh council has not always agreed for the past 20 years. And the State of N.C. has definitely not been on board for this entire time either…just my two/off-topic cents…:blush:

It’s very difficult to convince any body of people to pay for anything that isn’t the status quo. A lot of people are afraid of change, and that includes both transportation options and massive development and investment like Downtown South.


Oh, absolutely. I totally get that, and many of the results of these plans should’ve been ready to go.

…well, if it weren’t for piss-poor project managers dropping the ball + opponents getting in the way, anyways.

I’d argue that’s a different problem, though, such as GoTriangle’s inability to manage massive capital projects or how citizens and companies of the Triangle need to have a public conversation and agree on what we want to be like as a region.

The frustrations you’re bringing up are totally legit -but I think they’re just starting to get under the tip of the iceberg. I can understand the whole “let’s just hurry up and do this” mentality, but I feel like we’re going to keep seeing different flavors of this same core problem (stakeholders and leaders not being on the same page + mechanisms of change taking too long) unless we actually address that issue.

And that’s the result of decades of momentum; reversing this problem of bureaucracy and practical conservatism either requires slow, gradual, calculated change, or an explosive, violent revolution.


Stadium will seat 22,500. Site will only have 1,000 parking spaces.


That’s actually an ideal location. Forbes indicates that it will be between Market/Olive and 20th/22nd. That puts it across the street from Saint Louis Union Station (where the new aquarium is being built) and within walking distance of the main trunk line for MetroLink LRT. I imagine that the planners are expecting a size-able amount of attendees will use the system, just like they already do for (new) Busch Stadium.

And, the parking in the area for the station and Enterprise Stadium (where the Blues play) will probably catch some of game traffic as well.


Amazing idea and location and really helped by the reconfigured highway ramps.



Even better with the adjacent practice fields. That area always felt scarred from the ramps they had put in there back in the day. Will be curious as to whether the area can support two different soccer leagues with the Saint Louis Ambush out in Saint Charles.

(Have fond memories of going to Kansas City Comets (MISL) games at Kemper Arena back when I was in college.)

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Great location for the St. Louis stadium.

I wonder if citizens will have input to the design of this district.

Anyone been to Kansas City? They spent a lot of tax money + losing tax money building up the Power and Light District but it did wonders to Kansas City…

Here’s the thing…

Raleigh doesn’t have to give up tax revenue like Kansas City to have a new entertainment district. People are already visiting Raleigh to party. If Downtown South gets built and gets tourism tax money to assist we should:

  1. Have a special tax overlay just for Downtown South that charges a little more in sales tax than anywhere else. Tourist don’t mind spending a few extra dollars and the city gets extra tax revenue mainly from tourists.

  2. Open Container Zone. Kansas City’s Power and Light District is open container.

Family friendly Raleigh doesn’t mean we have to neuter ourselves with conservative, dated rules. Plus boring means less companies want to put jobs in Raleigh.


Sooooo this is a little odd :grimacing:

Cue a certain poster stating MLS is a Ponzi Scheme and poo pooing the whole idea. You know, tax dollars for a stadium.

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On Day one when the downtown South project was announced Malik made it Clear that the project would not be based on Raleigh getting a MLS team right away, let’s not get are shorts in a bunch lol

I mean, even if it’s not right away, you still submit the bid, right? Maybe I’m missing something.


Yes. You don’t submit a bid if you have no clue about the funding of your stadium at this point in time.

MLS has become prohibitively expensive for Raleigh especially now that Charlotte has a franchise. Raleigh will be the AAA equivalent soccer city. Like Charlotte is to hockey. Time to move on. MLB may have a fighting chance IF a DEEREEP pocketed group or individual feels the same. We may want the cool stuff but we need a Tepper.


No. You don’t.

Folks. Steve Malik is on the board of US Soccer as an at large member with the other at-large member, Don Garber. These guys are on the same board together and have been for several years. With that sort of connection, you think Malik might have a good idea of what Raleigh/he needs to do to land an MLS franchise?


Yeah, he knows he needs someone who can write the check. Raleigh does not have that.