Downtown South development

A) It IS one race OneWake is focused on period. As another poster noted, where is OneWake’s outrage in North Hills for the white folks that have been priced out of their neighborhood because of increasing tax values. I can answer that: nowhere to be found

B) I can say it is happening…because it is. Nobody has a constitutional right to live anywhere in America. If market dynamics are such that they get priced out…thats what happens. Nobody is guaranteeing I get to live where I want to live. There are other areas in the region they can move; other towns, counties, or states for that matter.

DTS is PRIVATE land…it is not publicly owned yet one group is interfering with those private owners ability to do what they wish with that land. If they were so concerned with the well being of SE Raleigh, why are they not cheering from
the mountaintop about the job creation DTS will create?


There are no low-income white, Hispanic, or Asian families in SE Raleigh? They’re not here for middle-class families just low-income ones anyway. Also, like I stated before not everyone has the privilege to move or go live somewhere else, that’s literally one reason why we have an increasing homeless population no one cares about


you’re argument is that because someone is poor they don’t have the physical ability to move? This assertion would never survive a courtroom cross-examination. The “privilege” term is a tired argument.

You never answered where is OneWake’s outrage over “displacement” of people being priced out of the North Hills area?

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Just because you get priced out of a neighborhood doesn’t mean your life has been ruined.


@John, @daviddonovan I think you two are on to something, something I am a bit concerned about. However, we have one major data point in the recent affordable housing bond. That bond passed no problem yet the Livable Raleigh folks (group behind the past council) were strongly advocating against it. So does that group have clout these days or is no one listening to their noise? Will DTS passing give them more clout? That’s what I’d be interested to see.


All, there’s some good (and just ok) chatter on gentrification and displacement. Going forward, I’m going to move it over to the Gentrification and Displacement thread. Feel free to point your armchair over there if you want. :wink:


Still a lot of really weird arguments here about what certain people “ought” to believe. People are free to believe whatever they want! Kane and Co. need to find ways to change people’s minds, and politicians have to work within the constraints of what their constituents believe is a good idea or not. Here’s a typical strawman argument:

This is true! But if I got priced out of a neighborhood, or worried that I might soon, and I thought that the choices that my local representative had made were responsible for that state of affairs, I probably wouldn’t vote to re-elect that politician. I could probably quote a dozen different examples of that happening on this thread, but you get the point.

There’s also a really good lesson here about the power of political organizing. While we were all on the internet talking to ourselves, OneWake did the actual legwork of political organizing, and that’s why they have a lot of political power right now. If the leaders of the opposition can come to the table and say, “We have hundreds of people in our group, and if you don’t address our concerns, they’re going to spend next year trying to make sure you don’t get re-elected,” then, given the size of the electorate for a Raleigh city council election, the councilors have to take that group very, very seriously.

Anyway, sometimes people who live in the same city you live in have different political ideas than you do. If you want to pretend like that’s unreasonable or something, that’s fine, but elected officials don’t have that luxury if they want to get re-elected again. For instance, I’m a leading proponent of the idea that landowners should be pretty free to develop their land however they see fit, regardless of what the neighbors think about it, but that’s very clearly not the world we live in, so we’ve got to operate in the world we find ourselves in.

@John Yeah, I’m very worried about this potential for ping-ponging city councils. And while it’s true that YIMBYs have an inherent advantage in that once you approve a denser development, the next council can’t tear it down and they’re just stuck with it, the flip side is that once land gets turned into low-density single family housing, it’s really tough to get it upzoned into anything else. So I’d really, really like to keep the YIMBYs on the next city council as much as possible.


A post was merged into an existing topic: Gentrification and Displacement

Cox is a wealthy landowner. This bond means he pays more for land in taxes. Therefore he disapproves and is using gentrification and other equity issues as a tool to accomplish a lower tax burden.

I mean look at his voting record and is actions when his NIMBY coalition had complete control of the city council. Did they ever make sweeping equity or affordable housing measures? I don’t recall. Actions speak truer than words.


Oh that’s embarrassing. :rofl: Thanks; that’s fixed now.

And the “inevitable” is exactly what I want: time for Kane to come up with a more thorough proposal.

This is why I think the next comprehensive plan (and also the Dix Edge study that has a survey open right now!!) is super important. These are long-range documents that force specific expectations onto City Council in rezoning and permit reviews, whether they like it or not.


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Who says OneWakeViaDurham’s demand for Affordable Housing has to be WALKABLE to places in DTR? I mean even if you’re carless, you still have public transit, which I thought was the mantra here that we need people to use anyway. But OneWake thinks the poor need to be able to walk out their front door and down the block to get their paycheck? BS.

For people “priced out” of their rent or property taxes because of development nearby, there’s a lot to be said with the predictability of the master planned suburbs where they don’t suddenly get a stadium or a North Hills built in the middle of their neighborhood. Ironically, those who want to ensure lower costs for themselves would have a lower costs and greater control over their financial destiny by living farther out in the burbs than living downtown. They can rent somewhere cheap elsewhere (the burbs on public transit line if needed), get some roommates if they can’t do it on their own, or do what people have done for 100’s of years: work hard, save up, move up. Get your furniture the same way many of us got when we were poor: Goodwill.
For the poster saying people don’t have the “privilege” to move, that’s just asinine. You follow the money and go where jobs are that pay you enough to cover your expenses. If you can’t cover your expenses, either reduce them or increase your income. This is not rocket science and “poor people” aren’t unable to figure out how to control their own destiny. With all that’s been spent on programs for poor or subsidized housing, you’d think it would be fixed by now, but it seems people complain they want even MORE help. Not trying to turn this political, but OneWakeViaDurham has made it political by getting involved, and of course the approval process by elected officials makes it inherently political.
But seriously, this outside group should concentrate on their own downtown in Durham instead of Raleigh’s.

David Cox be like: :rofl:


That mean we better vote like hell!!!

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That’s going to depend on all of us getting out and voting. Fortunately for this council that the NIMBYs have had both the pandemic and the election suck the air out of the room without much room for their blather.

I really think that the council should be marketing the good financial effects for the entire city to continue developing more densely within downtown and other nodes in the city. I’ve been using my mother’s current experience as a teaching moment with her. Her block/street/neighbor’s backyards are currently being torn up for a major stormwater project. I keep reminding her that she should be glad that those few neighbors alone aren’t on the hook for the costs or it would bankrupt them all. As Raleigh’s 70s & 80s era infrastructure starts to age past its useful lifetime, someone’s going to have to pay for its maintenance/replacement.


Kane is a known entity in the city. We see his work, he has been transparent and has delivered on his promises. If he was not from here and didn’t have the local portfolio then I can see taking a deeper and more deliberate look at it. I love the idea of bringing in minority builders to help out on the project. It’s Always’s great to have a diverse group of developers. However, on most sites I have seen it seems it is always majority of certain immigrant class, whatever, don’t really have an issue but they should make sure the diverse groups are actually diverse themselves. No one else has the money here that is willing to take this on. The non profit groups are full of hot air. We the voter and the people we voted in have had our say, these groups try and leverage consolidation of power and privileges to force their agenda, not the people’s agenda. They get suckers to work for them for free while the director and board take home six figure “non-profit salaries” and they promise dreams and deliver schemes. In a project this size what is affordable, who is the targeted affordable housing for, what is affordable in downtown right now and if you are on the low end of the spectrum can you really afford downtown prices, everything costs more downtown as far as food, drink and amenities.

Kane is a god send, this thing is so damned huge, it totally changes the game for that area, the city and the triangle as a whole. Driving by that blight for far too long. Running this displacement and gentrification game is not applicable here. This is a farce on its face.

This is the best thing that can happen to all of the residents in this area as it will actually get done, not a bunch of empty government promises.

This company does great work, they care about this town and it’s people and they make shit happen. Get out of the way, these groups can go and run these money making schemes on target and apple, leave this guy alone.

Break ground on Wednesday.

Have a blessed day!


I So Agree With You ! Thanks for this kind of support ! Ditto !


Link to the live meeting for tonight. Watch and comment here.


You and I agree 100 percent.


A post was merged into an existing topic: Gentrification and Displacement