While we’re on the topic…for those who have interacted with roundabouts on foot or on bike, how do you feel they compare to a conventional signalized intersection?
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They suck if there’s not push bottom flashers. People exiting the circle in particular seem to never see you. This was adjacent to a college campus though so the drivers were particularly bad.
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Yeah honestly I feel it’s a mixed bag even though they are touted as the greatest thing since sliced bread safety wise. If you have bike lanes, they just end unceremoniously before the roundabout and you have to merge back into traffic and take the lane. If you’re crossing on foot, you’re at the mercy of people actually yielding to you and you’re right about people exiting the circle not looking out for you.
The pro is that there are fewer lanes to cross at a time compared to a conventional intersection. Obviously there are things that can be done to mitigate these concerns - just commenting on what I end up seeing designed around here.
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Put up a light at the intersection of Myrtle Ave/Glenwood Avenue (also incorporate Alexander Rd). I don’t know what the cost would be, put have the light cycle when it detects traffic flowing at over 35 mph (drop speed limit to 30).
It also needs to be decided whether this road will serve as an Arterial Rd or a Local Rd. If a high speed arterial rd, then place up dividers to keep pedestrians safe. If an active local rd, then slow the speed down.
Driving high speed requires an uninterrupted road (or timed traffic lights that serve to increase flow). The signal light difference between St Marys St and Five Points is over a half mile long. A 1/4 is all it takes.
The on street parking makes this a narrow rd (in certain spots). I would love for it to be a bus only lane, but I don’t think making this a bus only lane will help (unfortunately). The medians also help to give it the feeling of being narrower.
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It depends on the roundabout. Make it a 2 lane roundabout, then it really doesn’t help as you need 2 lanes of cars to yield and the second car may not even see you due to the car closest to you blocking the view. I feel somewhat safer on Hillsborough St, but the speed limit is lower and there is a lot of pedestrian traffic. I will also say I’ve had close calls because the driver wasn’t paying attention to me but was keeping their eye on the car who had to yield the right of way to them. I’m personally not a fan of roundabouts.
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Only one way to fix it.
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The problem is, it being a state road and I’m thinking the functional classification is probably a principal arterial, the speed limits are restricted. But with Five Points being almost like a tiny downtown district they could honestly probably get it down to 25 with the right justification. When it comes to signals though, the warrants would have to be met; looking at Mrytle just based on the aerial I’m not sure if it’s going to meet.
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Tunnel 2 or 4 thru-lanes underneath for Glenwood and have just the single surface lane for ‘local’ traffic. Then you would also need just the 1-lane roundabout.
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Love the idea but then we’re talking a 100 million dollar project which here just wouldn’t make sense
As a pedestrian, I prefer the roundabouts—simply because approaching cars are forced to slow down to meander through. Even exiting cars can’t be going more than maybe 15mph. Even better if you slide the crossings with refuge islands further away from the actual roundabout, giving exiting drivers more time to see you and react.
Currently, the prospect of walking across Glenwood from the Rialto toward the old Marathon is dicey because drivers turning left from WM onto Glenwood are 100% focused on incoming Fairview traffic. When they get a window, ZOOM!! Then, you’re a sitting duck standing in the street. I’ve seen several near misses like this.
I just think that speed limits, signs, etc will deter some reckless driving, but not all. Physically rerouting cars (ie. roundabout) forces EVERYONE to slow down. Imagine trying to race your friends in daddy’s beemer knowing you’re about to enter a roundabout with a giant post oak in the center.
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Haha, isn’t it also a problem that we always start with statements like this?
The problem is, it being a state road
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This is by far the best solution. But probably also too costly.
Speed limit signs aren’t as effective as road design.
Even then, you still get thrill seekers and idiots (usually teen boys) who will only see the challenge of it all.
At this point, the approach to Five Points from the north already clues one into slowing down. The combination of the planted median, narrower lanes, and parking in the right lane should be enough for most people to move through safely, but there’s always that idiot…
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Whoever mentioned police enforcement, there were blue lights flashing all around the Glenwood corridor last night. Big traffic enforcement effort. Not going to color that positive or negative, just reporting.
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They’ll do that to satisfy the Nextdoor crown (and all of us asking for better enforcement) but it won’t be a long term showing and it’s not the “solution”. Perhaps a component. Also, what neighbors want blue lights flashing all the time?
Put one of those speed display signs up. To @John’s point, you’ll have that idiot teen boy that wants to see how fast he can register, but can’t we actually use these to ENFORCE speed, not just display it?
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Need some pop up bollards they can stop a high speed dump truck.
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I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s a problem since typically state routes are state routes since they serve the primary purpose of being truck and through routes.
The set of rules is very similar to if it wasn’t a state route but cities are typically more willing to try something out or being open with doing something and usually their roads will be lesser traveled.
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You can. Not sure if it’s done or legal anywhere in NC? I know there are many in TN and some popping up in South Fulton, GA in school zones.
A multilane roundabout isn’t right for this spot, IMO. They really aren’t great for pedestrians, especially when combined with heavy traffic. So we could put a fountain in the middle and make it look nice… okay, but totally not worth it when it would make the pedestrian crossing situation far worse than today, and take up even more land in the name of car infrastructure.
The roundabouts on Hillsborough were installed as a compromise to allow for a 4->2 road diet with better traffic flow than there would be with just stoplights. I would entertain a roundabout at five points only in that case.
I’m also not keen on foreclosing on the idea of bike and bus infrastructure on Glenwood so there’s that too.
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