Rich people are greedy? I would have not suspected that. /s
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Notably, I don’t see any 5-over-1’s with apartments in those examples, nor do I think it would be easy to get those through in Five Points without a fight.
Both the examples you have posted are pretty much just 2 story buildings. Which, yes, I agree - the neighborhood would probably support redeveloping the banks and gas stations and such with things like that. But it’s difficult to make things like that economically viable and it doesn’t make the city much denser which would be a huge missed opportunity in a walkable neighborhood like this. It keeps it as a neighborhood that’s walkable for only a very select, wealthy few - augmented by limited drive-in access by everybody else.
see my previous comment. five points neighborhood is mainly east of the intersection.
also… north raleigh?
but really it’s not worth arguing about. yes dense development in majority SFH neighborhoods outside of downtown would be difficult - not much shock there. I still think it will be attempted. See the Bickett/Fairview project
I think that’s about as realistic as density is going to get there. I don’t want perfect to be the enemy of good.
If we wipe out the parking lots that front the main shopping streets, get solid, contiguous 2-3 story buildings, with some townhouses, and accept that we’re shooting for making Five Points a more active, attractive neighborhood and by extension giving Raleigh more distinctive, unique “places,” then something could get done.
Glenwood, Hillsborough, Blount Street, and Downtown South already have plenty of unrealized locations to build serious density without fighting the whole CCC membership.
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Looking at Youtube and Google shows a lot of one lane roundabouts when searching for Dutch style. . I don’t think there would be enough space for a 2 lane roundabout + the additional safer pedestrian or biking infrastructure. Do you have an example of a 2 lane Dutch-style roundabout?
Type in “Turbo Roundabouts”
The radial exit approach slows things down for better pedestrian accommodations.
Also some good stuff from a TRB presentation on incorporating pedestrian and bike safety into Roundabout design. (It’s very long but has some good pictures)
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Horrible “rich” people! Just so selfish!
It makes perfect sense to me that someone who saved their money and bought a house in an area have more of an interest in that (“their”!) neighborhood than people who haven’t. No big deal. Is that a NIMBY? Maybe…or maybe they’re saying Yes to other things. Whatever. And tracking who people vote for isn’t relevant.
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The only problem I have with Five Points is that it is too small as far as the shops go. I’m ok with them being no more then 3-4 stories. I would like it to push either to the east or west a little bit more on Fairview but don’t see it happening. There are breweries that aren’t far so I don’t hate the area.
Although I like descent sized developments (up to 20 stories), I also have an appreciation for smaller places like Five Points. The neighborhood streets (I mainly ride east of Glenwood) feel safe to ride my bike on. Weirdly enough, St. Marys seems a little more sketch to ride on for me.
On the East, most of the area is zoned for R10. On the west, R4 (yuck). With the missing middle text that was passed, a maximum density of 21.8 du/acre would be allowed for attached houses, 14.5 townhomes, or 17.4 apartments per acre would be allowed. I’m not sure what the effect the NCOD (Neighborhood Conservation Overlay District) has, but I would love to see more townhouses.
Below are examples are places I would like to see here. They aren’t tall apartments complexes, but are nice middle density areas that are next to shopping streets.
Here is an example in DC.
Alexandria/ VA:
Or if you want a bit more space, a nice place in Oakland called Rockridge just south of Berkeley:
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The thing is, 2 story commercial buildings facing the sidewalk don’t really pencil out in Raleigh. I’m fine if it happens, but I’m not holding my breath.
Raleigh on the whole just has so little actual density and so few walkable areas that I just really think that the stagnation and relatively low density we see in Five Points, one of the few walkable districts we do have, is a tremendous shame.
If it were up to me, some of the historic buildings are worth keeping, but the banks, gas stations, and parking lots currently zoned for 3 stories, would get bumped up to at least 5. Maybe 7, especially at the Walgreens, where we’d aim for something like what they’re building at Seaboard, with a couple levels of underground parking.
If I’m reading the tea leaves correctly, though, such a proposal would be dead letter on day one due to neighborhood opposition.
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Having lived a few blocks from 5 points at one point, parking was an absolute nightmare in the neighborhood between Glenwood and Fairview. Those houses are smaller, and the lots are tight. My folks didn’t even have a usable drive way. So there would be a great deal of fear about more density at the intersection and the spill over parking.
While living in west Raleigh, I worked at the Rialto for awhile, which was largely a blast except for cleaning up after Rocky Horror every week, lol. Again, parking was a big pain. I usually parked on the street back behind the bank, if I could find a spot. Same when I was going to the great dive bar that was next to the theater, which for the life of me I can’t remember the name of, lol
The idea of a deck, partially if not fully underground is a great one. It would be a big help to all the businesses in the area. And it would be cool to see a couple taller, 4-5 story buildings there.
Neighborhood opposition would certainly be strong, but I think the ultimate killer for that kind of project would be the financing.
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Not me. I live here, and I want it to be vibrant and walkable. I would TOTALLY dig the Lilly’s/Lola’s/NOFO/Rialto vibe throughout the area. The Glenwood racetrack is killing it for me, among other things (banks and gas stations)
My biggest dream (outside of restructuring the traffic flow) would be a teardown of the old audiobuys building and having some cool street front retail there with parking in rear—where a lot already exists. Form and Function is merely some really nice lipstick on a hog of a building.
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Ahh yes… back in college we were regulars at RHPS at the Rialto. Good times. But I would feel completely out of place now. haha
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My plan: Tear down Audio Buys and the strip mall containing Walgreens, etc, to create a nice, 2 acre, wedge-shaped development site. An underground parking deck would have about 300 spaces per level. Figure 2 levels; 600 spaces. Build up 5-7 stories to have 300+ residential units plus a bunch of retail space to finance the expense of underground parking. The excess parking is made available to the public.
This is perhaps the best/only shot we really have at breaking the stagnation of Five Points.
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The gas station/parking lot and auto repair shop/bank wedges would also be great, if not quite so large.
That new bank is just such a lame use of that site.
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Yeah, I’d like that, but I think you’d have to have step backs on all sides—especially on the Scales St side to appease the neighbors. That, or scale the building down to 3 stories max.
Oh, and we gotta keep Bloomsbury Bistro in the new building!!!
Yes to all of the above, I feel like it would be very difficult to get major densification in Five Points. Though when we talk about equity, aren’t we talking about these exact instances, where it’s tougher for legitimate change to happen in more affluent, more white, and more politically-connected neighborhoods?
But I digress. I think there exists plenty of opportunity for thoughtful development at Five Points that doesn’t reach the level of 5-over-1 or even structured parking, but extends the retail/dining offerings and walkability while allowing more people to live in a highly-desirable neighborhood. The new car-oriented bank is one such missed opportunity.
If we’re looking for an example of how additional density can work here, how about our neighbors to the north?
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You would be correct my friend
Nah, we will keep the gritty look, it’s just fine the way it is, adjust target back to DTR.
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Where’s that??? 