The church building in the photo burned down in the 1960s. The destroyed building was a lighter colored blonde brick, which is the color used in the adjacent building on the left, today. The newer, current building used a (then) trendy mustard tan color that we have today + steeple.
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This is kind of where I’m starting to land on this. Roundabouts force you to slow down every single time you approach an intersection. With a traffic signal, approaching speeds can vary based on the phase (how many times have you gunned it in hopes of making a yellow?). You can beat a traffic signal, but you can’t beat physical obstacles.
Ultimately, I think I’m fine with either option as long as they close at least one of the side streets and finally give this city a decent pedestrian plaza.
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Not if you drive directly through them!
Um, every single time? I moved here from near Boston, after all!
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It is true that roundabouts make sure that no cars are going faster than (whatever speed, say 20 or 25) as they traverse the intersections.
But stoplights force drivers to stop which is a much better experience when it comes to crossing the street.
So are we concerned primarily with slowing down how fast free flowing traffic moves, or how comfortable and safe it is to cross the street?
To me, the Hillsborough/Pullen Roundabout really feels like the “end” of walkable Hillsborough Street. Crossing at any of the signalized crosswalks, no sweat. Same for any of the possibly hundred-plus signalized intersections downtown. Crossing the Hillsborough roundabouts on foot (or bike)? not fun. I feel 10x more threatened by drivers not watching for pedestrians at roundabout crosswalks than by the idea of cars driving by at 35 or 40 mph.
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People run red lights and speed to be lights. They turn right on red without looking. How many pedestrians get hit on stoplight streets (Dawson, Salisbury ) vs round about streets (Hillsborough)?
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What if we just had pedestrian traffic signals along the sidewalks at each entrance of the roundabout, forcing approaching cars to give priority to pedestrians on the curbs and small island refuges? There seems to be a lot of back and forth insinuating priority of cars vs pedestrians and vice versa but I don’t see how/why we couldn’t have it both ways?
I’ve never seen pedestrian signals at a roundabout, but it seems like that would solve (at least most) of the tension around safety for all parties.
I’m sure I’d feel just as safe crossing Glenwood/Whitaker/Fairview as I do any lower volume intersection with one of those. Of course, you have to equip yourself with awareness and self-confidence.
(Chin high, confident stride, “aye I’m walkin’ here!” attitude.)
Sure, the whole idea of roundabouts is to keep a continuous flow of traffic, and it’s not quite the same as crossing a linear road, but with the crossing islands and signage, I personally don’t see how it’s that different either, unless there’s heavy pedestrian traffic around the roundabout to the point of crowded islands.
Rob the Road Guy on YouTube covered this infrastructure a while back (granted, the topic is on mid-block crosswalks, but I could see it being a similar implementation and experience).
I don’t think I’ve seen any of these built anywhere here in the Triangle yet though.
These are a more elevated version of the helpful, but not too much crosswalk lights on Atlantic across from the UPS distribution center.
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In Carrboro at the new Estes round about, they have lights for pedestrians. They are maybe 100 feet from the round about. They work well. The only quirks are that pedestrians don’t always hit the buttons to operate the lights and the lights themselves are confusing to drivers. When they are solid red, drivers must stop. No problem. Then they start flashing red after being solid red, the drivers can then go. But, half the time the drivers don’t know what to do, because you usually have to stop at flashing red lights. I don’t know why DOT doesn’t make these flashing yellow lights.
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That sounds exactly like the HAWK hybrid lights Rob covers in the video. That’s awesome to hear they have been tried in our area. Sounds like the public could benefit from a simple educational/psa campaign, or just a couple of road signs explaining near the crosswalk, a la
“STOP FOR SOLID RED”
“USE CAUTION ON FLASHING RED”
Couldn’t be too hard to get used to, right?
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There used to be a HAWK signal on Strickland Road in front of West Millbrook Middle School, but has been removed since the school was rebuilt and the entrance was moved. I never used it as a pedestrian, but driving through there it never seemed that safe for pedestrians. Creating pedestrian signals doesn’t seem like a bad idea, but when you’re a pedestrian crossing a roundabout the extra distance that you’re required to walk to just to get to the crosswalk (esp. on something like the big Hillsborough one) is a hindrance to walkability.
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100% agree with this. When I was at NCSU I used to walk across this roundabout on a daily basis for 5 years, and it was seriously awful as a pedestrian. The crosswalks for roundabouts obviously are not located within the roundabout itself; they’re along the straight legs. So while cars slow down while in the curve, they speed up drastically as soon as they exit it, basically as they’re approaching pedestrians. I think you’d also be surprised by how many cars don’t slow down at roundabouts in the first place – sure, when there’s traffic, they generally do, but if it’s an empty street, people speed through. The Hillsborough roundabout also makes pedestrians especially vulnerable to high-speed traffic making right turns without stopping, which I think drivers would be better about were this a signaled intersection.
I felt like I almost got hit by absent-minded drivers several times a month. It was also just a much more circuitous and indirect path to get to where I needed to go (walking across the street to continue on Pullen either required me to cross three different crosswalks instead of one, or walk further down Hillsborough and then retrace my steps. There is no direct access to go right across.)
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I agree that I’ve generally had semi-negative experiences with the roundabouts on Hillsborough, especially since vehicles are less likely to yield to you leaving the roundabout since they are speeding up at that point
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Please no “USE CAUTION ON FLASHING RED”. Should be stop only. Waiting 1 minute in an air conditioned or heated car isn’t going to kill anybody.
There’s a similar pedestrian light at Falls of Neuse / Falls Management Center Rd. I didn’t realize that cars could pass on flashing red and was frustrated because cars were taking off on what I assumed was “red”. In Cary, I almost was hit at the ped crossing light on my bike at Evans Rd where Crabtree Creek Greenway crosses. I didn’t realize the sign flashed red for cars and was pissed when the car almost hit me.
I just learned about the flashing red when I saw that YouTube video haha.
There should be no allowing cars to proceed forward when pedestrians/bicyclists believe they are safe to cross.
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You still have to make a full stop at a flashing red, but you can continue as soon as it’s clear to proceed. The stop may just be momentary.
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Exactly yes- flashing red lights = stop sign rules.
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It’s always a bit nerve-wracking to have an unusual signal that makes people have to think back to their driving test days. The flashing yellow at Brookside/Automotive is the same way - people freeze up or gun it because they don’t remember what it means and panic.
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oh my GOD OH MY GODDDDD!!! A FLASHING YELLOW LIGHT WHAT THE HELL DOES THIS MEAN I BETTER THROW CAUTION TO THE WIND AND JUST DRIVE ERRATICALLY YES THAT IS WHAT THIS LIGHT MEANS!!!
It’s not like the general population suddenly gets smarter when you put them behind the wheel of a car
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Flashing yellow is an electronic yield sign. Then again, folks don’t always yield at a sign either.
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