Future Perfect: things we wish DTR has (but doesn't exist yet)

Trevi might be the best of the dozens of fountains in Roma, I love them all! But the crowds here make the experience less then perfect. Still, if DTR had that kind of crowd downtown around a fountain it would be pretty awesome.

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We need to do this! 20 fountains, I mean characters!

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I went in April and we snuck down a railing straight to the best part

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Was in Cary this afternoon. It’s embarrassing for Raleigh that Cary has such a nice fountain downtown but all Raleigh could muster up was a slippery splash pad.

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The JGNES is a syndrome where people look at Raleigh from an educated point of view or a satisfying view, meaning you think Raleigh has enough or lavish things that should benefit everyone,or you think Raleigh shouldn’t have what other cities has which would help us add value. The latter Raleigh shouldn’t have what other cities do I’ll give you an example:

@Fransisco on the

That’s a symptom of the James Goodnight Education Syndrome, so what other cities do is actually a good thing because those cities are adding value by flexing light rail. Another example is James Goodnight himself said he wouldn’t help Steve Malik on MLS (Major League Soccer) because he didn’t vision in this area pro-sports yet the added value to this area. Now I have nothing against him, it’s his money ofc. But what I’m trying to say is we gotta stop doing these educated points of view on cities and copy models of other cities that have been very successful if Raleigh wants some notoriety, then we better stop the numbo-jumbo of worthless community input and surveys no one really takes and start getting aggressive. But people have some reason especially on this forum to dis that progress, or not care too much. And I’m pretty sure some people are gonna respond to this and say something that’s gonna prove my point on this. The reason why Austin is so great is because the followed the model of other big cities, same in Portland, San Diego, Charlotte.

I’m trying to look at this with an open mind (and to be clear, this is not the thread for this, so Leo move it around however) but copying other cities just to copy them is shortsighted at best and suicidal at worst. It leads to a homogenization of cities where there’s nothing unique to draw people in compared to other cities. Austin, for one, did not copy Portland (outdoor-oriented City with great transit) or Charlotte (got lucky with a single company going through a series of bank mergers to become a corporate juggernaut). It built on its own existing strengths and that’s what Raleigh needs to do, too.

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True, but Boltman and Samuel just provedmy point to some degree about the syndrome I just made. @Boltman @Samuel

A ring of bike/ped tunnels across every leg of the intersection is exactly what we need at Avent Ferry/Western. It’s an extremely busy intersection for all modes. The bike/ped traffic to justify this probably already exists today. In fact, it definitely existed when I was a student there 20 years ago and probably has existed since the day NC State bought the Mission Valley Inn and turned it into a dorm in 1993. Hell, the destiny was probably set from the very day Centennial Campus kicked off in 1989.

The fact that this has been talked about for decades, and even a single meager tunnel has not been built yet, is a terrible indictment of our transportation planning and priorities.

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I wonder if anyone has thought to do a public-private partnership to just pay for such a thing, public funding be damned? Something like what @evan.j.bost suggested in the greenway thread sounds to me like a pretty low-risk investment (that’s a crippling concern for investors, apparently?) that could even double as commercial real estate or a prominent site for a “Welcome to Raleigh” showstopper.

Then again...

…the review paper in the link above suggests that –despite what all of y’all “classic” (neoliberal) free market-lovers think– private investors don’t seem to be the most rational actors of all time in this space:

TL/DR: private investors say they want to make money predictably and smartly, but they just pass the blame around when they could put in the effort to ensure success.

Fun fact: we are still talking about it at NCSU haha. It’s on the pipe dream list but I think it becomes more and more necessary as NCSU develops Centennial Campus and students need to be able to safely move back and forth between both campuses during the day.

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NCSU had this idea:

State’s bus system is good enough, this isn’t really necessary in my opinion. Based on my experience, getting back and forth between the two campuses was fine, it was faster to just take the bus. The issues started when you needed to get to somewhere closer, like mission valley. Too close to wait for the bus but slow and dangerous to cross western.

But the Western BRT Corridor Study acknowledges most of the issues with Western. For example:

The current crossing between NC State and Mission Valley is uncomfortable for pedestrians and includes long waits for a crossing signal - In order to remedy this situation, a tunnel is planned that will need to be integrated with future transit and multimodal facilities

Hopefully the recommendations are at least somewhat followed. Here’s the details on that tunnel, from 2015:

This project will complete the preliminary engineering and design for the proposed bicycle and pedestrian tunnel at Western Boulevard and Avent Ferry Road. The design will include engineering of a grade separated underground structure that includes sidewalks along both sides, in addition to a travel lane for cyclists. Upon the completion of the preliminary engineering and design, the project will be programmed for construction and will provide safer transportation options for pedestrians and cyclists to cross Western Boulevard that bisects the southern and northern campuses of North Carolina State University.

From what I can tell, it looks like that’s scheduled to be built in 2024.

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Yeah. The fact that this sort of improvement is a pipe dream, while a 9-figure interchange that takes up nearly a full square mile out in a forest near Clayton is a given, is really really bad. NCDOT literally reprogrammed their entire budget, cancelling or delaying countless other projects, to make sure it happened ASAP! And construction moved forward within a couple years of environmental clearance! Makes my blood boil.

And in spite of all the blood that has been shed by pedestrians and cyclists at this intersection over the years, and in spite of all the ink and money that has been spilled on feasibility studies and what not, I can’t even find a single available source for pedestrian volume counts at these crucial crosswalks. Not from the university, not from the city, not from the DOT. And yet it takes only a few clicks of the mouse to get car traffic counts for any year back to 1999. Bad bad bad. Just absolutely reprehensible.

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Looking at a map, I assume that’s the 70/I-40 interchange - what was their reasoning behind it?

Knowing nothing about that project so speaking generally, I’m pretty sympathetic to rural highway improvements and increasing inter-city speed/efficiency on interstates, those are the lifeblood of those communities and national commerce after all.

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It’s the -complete 540 interchange with I-40 and US-70.

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Yeah I hear you, but I’m not sure who would pay for it. I’m sure there would be some expectation for NCSU to provide funds sense it would be the major benefactor. Have there been fatalities at this intersection?

I’m also not sure if the new BRT route is going to help or hurt the case for grade separating under Western. Surely it would have an impact.

I could be mistaken but isn’t 540 pretty much federally funded that had to be spent by 2029 or the funds would be lost. Also it’s freight / mobility / economically driven. meanwhile something on the campus of NC state would need to draw funds from a partnership between State, DOT and the city. Not excusing it, but it’s all different pots when dealing with these types of projects.

Also with the traffic counts vs ped counts, similar story. NCDOT will only get car counts for their roads since that’s what they’re funded for. It’d be like asking for a dentist to do doctor things for you. Again, doesn’t make it right or fair but it’s just how our government agencies work.

As time moves on though, even at NCDOT, there is an increased focus on multimodal.

Also as an aside - the greenway and ped plan will be up for comment soon. These are the things that we can let be known. It’s an election year too, some candidates care about multimodal transport way more than others!

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Hadn’t really thought of this before now, but if they go center-running along this stretch of Western, then I think a tunnel with steps up to the platform in the center would actually go a long way in driving ridership. Western is not a fun road to cross on foot. Of course, then you’d also need an elevator… and suddenly you’re trying to get NCDOT to cough up even more money.

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With the center running BRT on western, we’re likely to have a center refuge island.

Not perfect but it will make crossing on foot much easier and friendlier. Instead of crossing 7 lanes non-stop, you’d cross 1 side, have an island in the middle, then cross the other side.

A center stop connected to a ped bridge or tunnel would be some next level stuff though and amazing to see.

Imo, it’s much easier to implement a ped bridge here because you could theoretically have it come in 1 piece. The tie-ins are harder due to grades but practicality wise, it’s easier than getting in a culvert and since it’s a college campus it offers the chance for a dramatic statement bridge.

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