Agreed. One of my favorite things about Savannah.
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A lot of things have huge favorability and are nevertheless not laws.
I think all but one person on city council is all lefties, you have nothing to worry about.
Make the whole damn city a social zone. This is stupid that this is even an issue.
I used to live in Savannah and it definitely made a portion of downtown more of a party/airbnb location. The lack of open container laws plus the bars closing at 4 am down there could make for some loud nights. It wasn’t the entire downtown, but large portions of it were just loud.
I wouldn’t have been able to live in those areas, and I’m sure the concern some people who own in downtown proper have (and rightfully so) is that certain pockets of downtown could become so loud at night that it’s just not a great place to live. But those are the super party areas like River Street, Broughton Street, Bay Street… etc.
On the flip side some of my favorite areas were a great mix between restaurants, little shops, and maybe a bar or two. Much more relaxed and it was great to be able to grab a drink to go and enjoy the parks on a nice day out while window shopping and people watching.
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Interesting, which person on the City Council you think is not a lefty ? Asking for a friend lol ?
If we want to do some targeted investment (and who doesn’t!?) isn’t a public drinking district exactly what Fayetteville Street needs to turn the corner?
- It’s central to the RCC and hotels, for the convention/visitor crowd and other entertainment venues like the Duke Center, King’s, Lincoln, and Red Hat in the summer.
- There aren’t any residences directly on it except for FNB, PNC, and the Sir Walter, and those people are high up so maybe the noise wouldn’t bother them as much
- Plenty of establishments along the corridor that can take advantage of this, from north to south Anchor Bar, Foundation, Big Easy, Issac Hunter’s, Haymaker, with a potential for more as a result of this, ahem, TARGTED INVESTMENT (maybe something will finally stick at the Wahlburger’s location)
- Did I mention that Fayetteville Street needs the investment, a targeted one at that?
Glenwood South and the Warehouse District are doing fine on their own and surrounded by housing. This just seems like a no-brainer to me.
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Looks like Greensboro just passed something like this in December 2021. You would hope Raleigh would take note and see what did/didn’t work with their rollout of this.
When in roam: In 'Greensboro Social District,' you can walk around, drink in hand.
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Thanks for your story @clairebertt
Nothing you say surprises me. I have a similar story with Miami Beach. Some parts of South Beach are just untenable on a daily basis for residents. For me, this is where the rub comes in with regard to open container and full blown encouragement of a party scene without regard to the residents of the districts. This is especially true for Glenwood South where, with the city’s encouragement, has become the most resident dense district downtown. This density of residents led to downtown landing its only full service grocery store. A lot has been put into developing this urban, walkable, full service district, and after a few decades that’s finally coming to pass. Over the last 15 years of this blog (Thanks @dtraleigh), contributors and commenters have lamented having an unwalkable Raleigh, and celebrated as one emerged in Glenwood South. With the advent of Smoky Hollow, this has only accelerated the walking credentials of the greater district. The success of the latter has only encouraged more and more residents and mixed use density, and most of us in the district welcome that with open arms. Vibrancy is the end game.
I know that there must be a contingent of folks who imagine downtown filled with party revelers a la Bourbon Street in New Orleans, Beale Street in Memphis, Ocean Drive in South Beach, Broadway in Nashville, 6th Street in Austin, etc. I get that enticement, but those districts aren’t built on alcohol “freedom” alone. They are built on tourism draws (music, entertainment, beach culture, etc.): something that Raleigh doesn’t have. That said, there are lots of other cities in America that have vibrant urban centers that are built upon a foundation similar to what Raleigh’s building in its own downtown, and those should be our examples to follow.
The goose has laid the golden egg downtown with thousands of new residents filling up units that contribute a lot of property tax to the city without expanding its service acreage. It’s the infill that we not only wanted, but was needed to stop the ponzi scheme of forever expanding our city limits and putting the city on the hook for servicing a greater and greater area of infrastructure and services.
Let’s be careful about what our intentions and long range goals are for the city and its center before knee jerk reacting to a proposal because it sounds like fun. If the city is going to explore the idea, let us do it methodically and carefully so that we can learn what its impacts are, and adjust accordingly. Also, if we are going to create a full blown party district, let’s not sacrifice the urban neighborhoods that we have so carefully curated (often against headwinds) thus far. Let’s create something purposefully so as to not create conflict for the most important component of our downtown: its 24 hour/day residents.
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Yeah I for sure think it has to be intentional, otherwise no one is going to want to live in the residential areas immediately surrounding where the open containers are allowed. For Savannah it worked pretty well because there is so much tourism that the few apartments stay full of tourists year round. Savannah also has a huge open container district because I’m pretty sure they tied it to the historic district which they keep expanding… lol.
But I have to say I agree with @Kevin that Fayetteville Street seems to be a good area since there aren’t as many residents on the street level.
Overall I’m certainly not against it, but it definitely has to be well thought out for it to be done right.
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The point about the tourism draws is important. It’s never going to feel like Beale Street, Broadway or Savannah because Raleigh fundamentally is never going to have the same level of midweek tourism - there’s not enough unique draws to see and do, and it doesn’t have the same history and associated architectural interest as those cities.
Doesn’t mean that a social district wouldn’t be raucous on the weekends and need to be well-thought-through - look at Glenwood South.
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That’s my point as well. Raleigh is not a tourism city. It doesn’t have that sort of credential, and it’s “dreaming” to think that it can be turned into that sort of city through alcohol. Can it be a fun place to be? Yes. Can it be a better experience? Yes. Will it become a city that folks on The Price is Right win a vacation to? No.
Over the past 2+ decades, I’ve noticed a substantial difference in the midweek crowd. What used to be empty streets, Mon -Wed in particular, is now filled with residents enjoying their community and filling seats at restaurants, etc. The sidewalks are no longer a ghost town on weekdays, and businesses can thrive because residents are there. Publix seems to be doing a banging business, and I suspect that the “Hollow” will as well when it’s built-out and occupied. Because the Triangle is not a tourism metro, and because it’s not filled with a huge service industry population fulfilling the desires of tourists, downtown’s midweek business is going to continue to rely on the evening crowd of 9-5 residents. In places that are tourism oriented, even the huge workforce supporting those tourists becomes part of the tourism demand, as those workers partake in the party as well. It’s a system that feeds itself. Think waitstaff going out for drinks late at night after their shift is over. This happens a bit too in Raleigh, but not like it happens in tourist locales.
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Growing up in Orlando I remember almost every restaurant and club had “service industry night” which of course catered to the tourism workers. Also, Orlando (and other very touristy-centric cities) are the first to feel the pain when there’s an economic crisis. I prefer a balance.
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Totally. There are industry nights/events in Miami Beach as well.
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Depends on how you define “tourism”. If you are talking about visiting for our “Busch Gardens”, clearly the answer is “no” but you may underestimate the tourism the Big 3 universities attract weekly.
Not as flashy but those 3 “engines” generate a lot of incoming traffic……& not just for basketball games.
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Tell your friend to research it for itself, clue, use the internet.
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I can see NCSU pulling a decent amount of people, particularly when major sports are in season, but I’m not sure UNC-CH and Duke are pulling people to Raleigh as much.
I was actually surprised how much people travel from out of state to watch hockey games here. I’ve sat beside many a hockey fan who said it was cheaper to fly here, get a hotel, and come watch their team in Raleigh than in the home stadium. But they never stay for more than the night and then they are back off to where they came from.
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I have heard of at least one downtown area that plans/intends to become a public drinking district. And no they don’t view themselves as future Bourbon St. by any means.
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@UncleJesse & @clairebertt
While I appreciate and understand that the universities draw people to the Triangle for specific events (games & graduations particularly), this does not make any of the Triangle’s cities tourist towns. I’d argue that the closest thing to a tourist area near the Triangle is Southern Pines/Pinehurst since its draw isn’t tied to specific events alone. Put another way, substantial numbers of tourists don’t come to NC State on any given weekday or weekend; there has to be an event tied to it.
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What have you heard?