GoRaleigh Bus System, now and the future

dbearhugnc · February 2, 2020, 2:13am

And, poor agricultural practices. From the History of Umstead State Park…

https://www.ncparks.gov/william-b-umstead-state-park/history

Long before the first settlers, the area now known as William B. Umstead State Park was an untamed land. American bison, elk, bobcats and wolves roamed majestic forests of oak, hickory and beech. Native Americans later inhabited the land and avenues of trade were developed nearby. Such avenues included the Occoneeche trail to the north and the Pee Dee trail to the south. In 1774, land grants opened the area for settlement.

Forests were cleared as agricultural interests sprouted. While early farming efforts were successful, poor cultivation practices and one-crop production led to depletion and erosion of the soil. During the Depression, farmers made futile attempts to grow cotton in worn-out soil around Crabtree Creek.

In 1934, under the Resettlement Administration, federal and state agencies united to buy 5,000 acres of this submarginal land to develop a recreation area. The Civilian Conservation Corps, as well as the Works Progress Administration, helped construct the site while providing much needed jobs. Four camps along with day-use and picnic facilities were built and the park opened to the public in 1937.

The state purchased this area, known as Crabtree Creek Recreation Area, for $1, and more facilities were built as the General Assembly made its first state parks division appropriation in the 1940s. In 1950, more than 1,000 acres of the park were established as a separate park for African-Americans. This area was named Reedy Creek State Park. Crabtree Creek Recreation Area was renamed a few years later after former Governor William Bradley Umstead because of his conservation efforts. In 1966, the Crabtree Creek and Reedy Creek areas were united under the same name; William B. Umstead State Park was open to everyone.

So, it’s likely that land closer to the NCRR corridor had not proven to be so worthless to be taken over in such a fashion. And, the Army Air Corps didn’t require a proximity to a rail line for its facilities, either.

Had it been a tank training base, then the outcome would have been entirely different. The tank training happened at Camp Polk, which was on the site of the current State Fairgrounds (and adjacent to the NCRR).

CanesFan · February 2, 2020, 3:51am

The cost of constructing a rail alignment to RDU would easily exceed the budget to construct such an alignment. Ultimately, what was the number one thing that killed the Durham-Orange light rail? Cost.
If only one or two percent of RDU’s total traffic count use the rail transit link, would such an expenditure for 300-700 people a day be money well spent?

JeepCSC · February 2, 2020, 4:30am

I thought Duke killed the Durham-Orange Line.

CanesFan · February 2, 2020, 5:12am

Duke was the final nail in the coffin, but cost ultimately killed the deal. Lots of viaducts, potentially having to tunnel through downtown Durham, loss of funding. The project became an albatross. (Tinfoil hat time) I think Duke was asked to be a patsy, so to speak, to kill the project once and for all. You can’t tell me that after all of the years of planning that Duke, an organization that has vast expertise in running sensitive electronic equipment, only figured out towards the very end that electromagnetic interference with sensitive electronic equipment would be an issue.

ScrantonUSC · February 2, 2020, 12:13pm

Being the cynic that I am, that crossed my mind. But what benefit was it to them to offset all of the bad press they got?

dbearhugnc · February 2, 2020, 12:51pm

And, there was all of the last-minute obfuscation from Capital Broadcasting’s powers because of planned street closures between downtown and DAP/DPAC.

pBeez · February 2, 2020, 4:23pm

I doubt Duke cared much about bad local press or getting the angering the supports. They are a northern - oh my bad - a national university, so its a small blip to them.

If costs were spiraling, it unfortunately needed to be killed. Especially for the first project, it needs to come in on time and either under or damn close to budget. Otherwise it becomes the poster child for never doing another.

Financially, they should build Mooresville and an additional RTP with regular shuttle service to the airport - it would be nice if they had a dedicated lane or road - and an eye towards an eventual rail/lightrail connection. One change is not an unreasonable ask to not have to drive to the airport imho.

CanesFan · February 2, 2020, 4:28pm

As far as Duke’s culpability, that was pretty much forgotten a month afterward. Duke gets the benefit of the doubt due to all of the positive contributions to the community. Duke benefits by not having the nearby roads and infrastructure torn up for a lengthy period of time.

scotchman · February 2, 2020, 4:30pm

lol, “Duke is northern”: I was working with a company in Boston (another consulting jig) was explaining why RTP was RTP and they are socked, I say, really SHOCKED that Duke was in the South, they were sure was like NJ or NY but not the south!!! Then they were most prejudiced people I ever met.

pBeez · February 2, 2020, 4:35pm

My nicknames for Dook are alternatively the University of New Jersey at Durham, or South Jersey State.

JoeZ · February 2, 2020, 5:02pm

Having grown up in NJ, I think a number of the states own residents believe that Dook is in NJ. Also, mention NC State, and you will get a puzzled look followed by the question “uh, isn’t that where Michael Jordan went to school?”

KenAA · February 2, 2020, 5:16pm

We’ve already discussed that a good reason to absorb the cost of including an RDU connection is the marketing aspect to sell it to the public and new employers.

Possible large tech firm: “It’s great the Triangle finally has a rail line going in. It will be such an advantage to get from our proposed mega campus to the airport.”

Raleigh homeboy: “Uh, the most advanced science region in the country says they couldn’t afford it. Sorry. Gotta stick to that old cattle trail from the 1800’s”.

Also Raleigh homeboy: “But the rail line works great for Morrisville to Garner, isn’t that exciting?”

colbyjd3 · February 2, 2020, 5:21pm

I just don’t get why people are so bent out of shape over the concept of having to transfer from the train to a shuttle that takes less than ten minutes to get to RDU. Lots of airports across the country do this. The feds are not going to give us the money if we blow up the cost by laying new rail on new ROW. Period.

CanesFan · February 2, 2020, 5:32pm

People already accept this transfer concept with rental car shuttles and extended parking shuttles.

scotchman · February 2, 2020, 5:32pm

10 min from RTP to RDU, 20 from downtown Raleigh and Durham not a big deal. Issue with personal car is parking, either expensive or add 20 min to travel time. BTW the big wheels will have company driver take them to RDU in private car. So only people doing a transfer are lower ranks.

dbearhugnc · February 2, 2020, 5:41pm

The real big wigs will be in the air taxi drones

scotchman · February 2, 2020, 6:08pm

My Nephew was at his company office in NY a few weeks ago and was going to take Uber to JKF and they told him to take Uber air was only a block or so from office and only $5 more than car. Sweet.

keita · February 2, 2020, 6:24pm

…and can you still say that when crashes on I-40 make that time estimate triple? This already happens during rush hours (and even clogs up side roads), and it’s only going to get worse, too.

Besides, it seems wrong to just assume people won’t want (not need) an alternative to driving. We (transit users) who would prefer to not drive aren’t all “lower ranks”.

I don’t think we all agreed on this, though. Like… sure, it makes things sound cooler and more convenient.

But does it even matter? What you’re saying means companies care about the appearance of a train line’s closeness to an airport. @dbearhugnc’s post on the other thread about Raleigh rail shows there’s still plenty of metro areas that do fine without a train literally dropping you off at the front entrance of a terminal. (Hell, even San Francisco’s BART was like that when it first started, too)

dbearhugnc · February 2, 2020, 6:54pm

I always liked San Jose’s idea of a PRT system.

Has anybody ridden a Heathrow pod?

But, now I suspect we’ll be seeing autonomous taxis.

pBeez · February 2, 2020, 11:24pm

Agreed, if we can subsidize roads, we should subsidize mass transit. It is equitable.
In Rome, there is a train station at the airport - but it is a real schlep. You can board the high speed into downtown, or the regionals part way in and transfer. It works. People do the walk, 15s or so. People who don’t have a car waiting, lol.