Investing In DTR (personally)

This thread made me think of a service I used to invest $500 in a house in Pittsburgh. I invested last June and the home has been built and is now for sale, so we will see how it goes. The expected return to me will be 12% after it sells. Anyhow would be cool to see someone in Raleigh use this model so we could invest in it.


In a related note. If anyone is looking for a house in Pittsburgh.

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Kane being involved downtown this time around gives me a great deal of hope that things will keep rolling along, at least somewhat, even if the economy sours. He went right on building at North Hills, straight through the great recession. He must have some investors with deep pockets, a very long view, and who share his vision, trust his judgement, and fully back him because of his ability to execute.

All hail Citizen Kane.


That’s gives me hope, I’m making a list of all the developments. There is a lot now that I look at it.

That’s a really interesting perspective. I don’t recall exactly the timeline for N. Hills and the great recession but it would be really interesting to map the two to see the impact.
If Kane could find a way to put in some condos in phase 3, it would be really tempting to invest pre-construction in them.
BTW, both of my investments downtown came really early in pre-construction pricing. That’s worked for me both times.


Kane is the real deal. Supposedly big out of town developers come in with supposedly excellent track records and supposedly deep pockets, and wind up taking forever skittishly sizing up the market, getting cold feet and taking forever tweaking and fine tuning their projects, until the moment has passed.

Kane is different. He issues a proclamation and seemingly the next day a skyscraper springs forth from the ground. It’s unreal. The time from project announcement to groundbreaking to completion is unprecedented, certainly here in Raleigh but also just about anywhere else this side of China. Reminds me a bit of Novarre from Atlanta in the last boom, but even faster.

I guess you could call me a believer.

Frankly the architecture of most of his stuff is nothing special. But I really don’t care. Just having somebody in town who f*ing delivers the goods is priceless.


I wonder why he doesn’t run for political office or become a member of the counsel. Would be hilarious.

He’s probably too busy making money. He’s also no spring chicken so there might be a sense of urgency on his part to make his mark before he retires. Who knows?


I think for the same reason that Bonner Gaylord decided to “bow-out” and not contest his re-election. You can’t effectively do both at the same time. President of the US? Maybe…Lol But not mayor or city council…:wink::blush:

I made a list of ones, I know I got some of the names wrong, that personally impact me. if all of these projects begin by 2024-2027 we are going to be LIT. :fire:!

Completed since I moved here:

  1. The Dillion
  2. One Glenwood
  3. Union station


  1. Smoky hollow
  2. FNB Tower
  3. Fair-weather condos
  4. Tower 4
  5. AC Hotel
  6. Crabtree. -terrace?
  7. Moore square
  8. 301H
  9. Smoky hollow 2

PLANNED (executed by 2027)

  1. MLS stadium
  2. City Centre
  3. N&O1
  4. N&O2
  5. Smoky hollow3
  6. Tower 5
  7. Glenwood 2,
  9. (Name)
  10. Nash SQ Hotel
  11. Highwoods
  12. New Bern Red Line
  13. East Raleigh Transit Center

2. City Gateway
4. 400H


Kane has momentum. It can take years to build up the credit, cash flow, construction and design teams. I think he is just hitting his stride rather than worrying about legacy, at least not yet. We will know when his legacy project begins.


I d bet my horses rather on a tech town over the next decades. Wouldn’t you?

No doubt it is. I am commuting on I40 for the past 7 years and I can watch it getting worse. Still I drove in Boston and NY just last week and I am happy to be back :slight_smile:

For rental comparisons and trends I recommend yardi matrix. As peer towns I like to compare us to Austin, Nashville, Portland OR, Columbus OH but also Richmond

Austin has its fair share of downfalls. Traffic planning was a disaster. Street activation in downtown is only so so. Still the tech boom town to look up to these days

I meant that similarly how we wish Edison could be picked up by a serious developer I wish the same for H400. Some local “developers” are really just betting on appreciation and sitting on the land. The good news is that besides Kane high caliber out of state investor developed an appetite for downtown Raleigh


@ScrantonUSC I don’t see how either has better bones as far as infrastructure or lay out. They both have to contend with rivers & bridges that we do not. Every time I’ve been to either its a mess of traffic. Coming in by interstate or FM roads to Austin from the north is a s**t storm. Austin to SA is even worse! I’ve only driven N’ville’s freeways and Lord have mercy!! Who every thought merges rather than interchanges was a smart idea??

Are Raleigh & Wake county’s, heck the whole triangle’s, roads overburden at every level? No doubt But I don’t think its hindering the city’s development in the lease.

His Wells Fargo building is legacy as heck to me. His 32 story N hill tower will Be legacy too.

And you never know, tomorrow when he announces his plans, we could all he shocked. It may be his final show.

Fallon could buy it if they are serious about the market.

Fallon could buy what? Wells Fargo?

Fallon could buy Highwood’s empty “Edison” lot.


He was asked about that possibility in a recent Podcast Raleigh episode, but he stated that he doesn’t have much interest in it. Given that Bonner Gaylord was on council for several years and may run for mayor in the future, I think he’s happy not being involved in politics personally, and feels he can do more as a developer than a politician.

Is North Hills not already his legacy project? Sure, he’s built in other places . . . but Kane Realty has absolutely transformed the area, and still has more to do. I’m not sure there’s a better example of his capability to put shovels in the ground and deliver a high-quality project.


That’s fair. Maybe we should rename if for him - Kaneberg or some such catchy phrase.
I am open to suggestions.
Somehow I think there is a something more coming. We shall see. This announcement next week could contain it.


They are extremely different. Without going into a dialogue, with a half ways decent street grid you have a lot of possibilities for traffic volume growth and organic adaptations to new traffic patterns. Raleigh’s lack of a street grid severely inhibits its growth and limits it’s planning for growth.

The reason why Raleigh’s traffic is better than the other 2 cities is because it’s multi nodal and the major job centers are much more spread out.

Edit: This is 2 fold in Raleigh. 1) the immediate downtown grid area is minuscule for a major city and limits downtown and urban expansion. 2) But more importantly, there is a lack of any kind of coherent street system in the vast majority of Raleigh. The possibility for growing or adapting access to DTR from the rest of the city is severely limited. Again, it’s not a problem right now, but if we ever get to desired density per square mile rates for a proper city, it will be a shitshow.