On the streetcar idea, I think most of the time in the U.S. it’s been used as an economic development play moreso than an actual mobility solution.
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I agree, too, and I’m not sure if anyone really disagrees with this lol.
I’m not sure if this is the case for the rest of y’all, but I obsess over relatively small details like branding because it can help grab people’s attentions and direct them to the more practical benefits you’re talking about. Those “little” things only work if the core product of the BRT experience feels like something better than regular buses.
(Sure, you could get lost in those details and forget the main goal of giving the Triangle the option of a better-than-a-bus transit experience. But I don’t think that’s an issue we’re seeing here)
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I know in Cincy there streetcar is specifically for downtown and a tourist area. If that were in Raleigh that’ll work beautifully, there be transit-oriented development like hotel-specific funding. The only concern is obtaining funds.
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Is that Dylan that I see in the background at The Fairweather?
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I think if light rail was back on the table and it was solely a City of Raleigh project it should cover the most key areas of Raleigh as possible. Most ideas focus on the southern approach but that ignores a huge amount of Raleigh for the benefit of Cary. For example, Brier Creek is Raleigh but it’s basically so out there that its potential is unrealized. Do you think it will stay suburban forever? I highly doubt that.
Can you build a Light Rail/Rail line that covers: RDU, Brier Creek, the HWY 70 Corridor, Crabtree Valley areas, North Hills/Midtown, and Downtown Raleigh with options extend to south/southeast Raleigh?
The RDU terminus can be underground until it exits the airport area and then it can be surface for most of the rest of the line.
Building on the median of hwy 70 and likely 440 and some other options should save a little bit of money as well.
Alternative that swings directly into Brier Creek.
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I was thinking about this last night leaving the airport. Dallas has a really nice metro system, one for the airport and another for the city.
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I like it. I definitely like the realism of the idea of yours keeping the route basically as short as possible.
My only big hang up is I think if we were to actually build something we’d need to just bight the price Bullet and keep it running up Wake Forest Rd to Midtown Exchange and then over to NH instead of just up Six Forks.
I love the idea of bringing it up US 70 instead of just I40. I think that captures more centers and more households than Cary. I will say though, if we were able to get Cary’s buy in, maybe we could make it a loop and continue the line from the Airport, to RTP, Cary, and back to Raleigh.
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For selfish reason I would love this. Living near NH, it would be great to get downtown, the airport, and RTP (where I work). But For Raleigh as whole, not sure. I do not think most of the glenwood corridor between Crabtree and brier creek is high density. But maybe light rail would drive more sense development.
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What Glenwood gives you is easy access to all those North Raleigh houses. There’s probably a city of Cary population in those 27615, 27613, 27612 area codes.
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This route probably makes sense as a long term future transit line for Raleigh but I think light rail is the wrong mode. An automated light metro like Vancouver or what they’re building in Honolulu would probably be better.
I do not think light rail is useless as a mode. Its main benefit is capacity and the ability to run in dedicated rail-only rights-of-way. It was probably the right mode for Charlotte’s blue line south corridor for example. But when running in street right-of-way it is seldom any faster than a bus. For a longish 15 mile radial to the airport like this, probably not the right choice. There aren’t many corridors in Raleigh where LRT would make sense, TBH.
Perhaps an eventual upgrade of the New Bern and South Saunders BRT lines would be good LRT candidates, these corridors are shorter and the trains could possibly continue onto the existing, lightly used rail lines to Fuquay and Knightdale/Wendell/Zebulon at the end.
At any rate none of this is going to be legitimately on the table for another 2 decades (at least) and we have a LOT of work on densification to do before this could remotely make sense.
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Vancouver’s Skytrain is exactly what I was thinking (other than Singapore’s MRT). Whatever we can do to eliminate the human factor to make this system as reliable and fast as possible. Skytrain also design for steeper grades for more flexibility.
Cut-in-cover will probably work on the Hwy 70 area and above the highways on 440.
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I personally don’t see viability for light rail much beyond the Beltline. I can imagine some connection among downtown, NC State, North Hills, Crabtree and the west Raleigh Blue Ridge corridor. Other than that, I think the Triangle needs a heavy rail solution to connect Triangle cities together, along with RDU and RTP.
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Hopefully the virgin hyper loop will happen within our lifetime
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Maybe yours, but doubtful for mine!
The Hyperloop is a joke and a shoddy substitute for proper High Speed Rail.
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I think this is the right thread.
Haven’t read it yet but wanted to share.
Edit: Quick read. Doesn’t say much.
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Thank you! Agreed, not really a lot there. My question is, how do you quantify the fact that GoTriangle leaders have or will have learned from this?
“On Monday afternoon, commissioners also said they want GoTriangle leaders to learn from defunct rail line when considering the proposed commuter rail that would connect Durham and Clayton.”
What do you mean? What would you quantify?
Not that that matters, since I think the biggest lessons from DOLRT are qualitative. The issue's not about finances, but poor project management and stakeholder relations. (click me for more)
The sad truth (which isn’t newsworthy because the media and its average consumers are too reactionary, and don’t want to sit down and take their time to learn about the issues) is that the costs incurred aren’t weird or unusual. There’s a bunch of upfront costs that go into transit projects; if a project is not politically or socially viable (and the responsible thing to do is to kill it off) but people try to push and make it happen anyways, this is what happens.
Planning and political mistakes don’t cancel out. Complaints and distrust from institutions like the General Assembly, downtown Durham businesses, and Duke just pile up until you can’t outmaneuver them anymore, and you have people like then-CEO of GoTriangle Jeff Mann and project manager John Tallmadge take the fall.
(Maybe some of these are because Mann should’ve acted more cautiously or Tallmadge should’ve kept up with skeptical partners better. But I highly doubt it’s because they were fundamentally bad people or anything -and I really hope Tallmadge’s teaching his students to do better as a lecturer to planning students. Mann seems to have a cushy job at AECOM now, though, so… uhh… take that as you will.)
Also, I’m 99% sure we’ve talked about it somewhere but can’t find it, so here’s the full presentation GoTriangle put together. This was shown in a Board of Trustees meeting last month, I think.
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I think it may be beneficial in the healing process for the citizens of Durham specifically to get a clear message. Here is what and why GoTriange LR went wrong and how we can show how it won’t happen with YOUR money again. Or at least a much better expectation of potential pitfalls in regards to the Heavy-Commuter rail. 
IMO 
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